What is the preoccupation with target audiences?

[SLEEP]

This is gonna have a different answer for everyone, but hmm i wonder if I should open this can of worms. Whooops i did.

A lot of posts on this forum throw out lines like "be wary of your target audience" or "keep your target audience in mind". People feel the need to pick a target audience, and adhere to it, usually following the conventions of capitalism (the only model there to follow, nothing wrong with it). Setting boundaries for your creativity so it doesn't spew all over the place is a good idea. There's nothing innately wrong with picking a target audience, but it seems like a really specific way everyone seems to choose and advice others to choose controlling their creativity.

And I think... there's a bit of a problem with everyone picking target audiences. It's fine if a few people do it to suit their needs, it's problematic if a lot of people do it because "its the done thing". And the problem i'm seeing is... there's value in creating work that appeals to you, and people like you. There's value in creation for creation's sake, forget the audience. The audience your work deserves can and will find you, you don't have to find them. Most RPG maker games end up being niche products, even the commercial successes aren't megahits.

Your "target audience" is usually your peers online and in real life, and whatever random internet people decide it looks cool. And if it's a good game, maybe a little cult following. (little in the scheme of things) Picking a capitalism-friendly (lets say for example) 18-25 male demographic won't mean that's who'll find game. And i'm worried people are closing creative doors they shouldn't, for egregious reasons, and maybe even overlooking what their real audience could be. Or leaving things out of their games which could be appealing, for the sake of a target audience they can't appeal to.

But these are just my musings. Discussion ideas:

• Do you have a target audience in mind for your game? Why/why not?
• Do you think i'm an idiot who's wrong about everything i've just posted?
• Or are you very cool irl and agree with me?

 

[Mouser]

Are you making art for art's sake or do you care if other people play your game?

 

[Indinera]

What I like about being independent, is being able to do whatever you want. So no, I don't have a target audience. As long as I'm able to keep going, I tend to make the game I want to make, regardless of whether or not I think it's the best way to ensure success.

I took some risk with games like Dreamscape (featuring an usual gameplay), Sylia (featuring a very peculiar cast of characters) and probably my upcoming ones as well. But this is what is fun about being indie, no boss to tell you what you do, so best make the most of it.

 

[whitesphere]

To me, a target audience is important.  One of the first rules of writing, whether it is commercial or not, is "Know your reader."  For RPGs, it is "Know your player" (i.e. target audience)

In creating the game, this can make a huge difference in:

- How difficult are the puzzles?

- What kinds of topics can I explore?  An RPG for young children probably will avoid dark themes like "player kills the king"

- How long is the game?

- How complex can the battles be?  Complex puzzle bosses (i.e. Magnus in Chrono Trigger) don't work well in games aimed at young children

The target audience also includes things like: Is the game aimed at hardcore RPG players?  Would the audience like a lot of grinding (hours of repetitive gameplay to, say, advance a character level)?   What interests do they have?  A horror-themed RPG won't work if the audience doesn't like horrors.

Really, without identifying the target audience, I'd just be writing an RPG for myself.  That's great, but if I even want to share it with close friends, I need to tailor the game so they'll enjoy it.  

A grinding-heavy game would work well for the RPG players who love to grind, but very casual gamers who play RPGs in short bursts would quickly get bored with hours of repetitive battles.

That's why I think having a target audience in mind is crucial.  If you want other people to enjoy the game as well, it needs to be written with their wants and needs in mind.    That really drives the game.

 

[GrandmaDeb]

Your "target audience" is usually your peers online and in real life, and whatever random internet people decide it looks cool. And if it's a good game, maybe a little cult following.


Discussion ideas:

• Do you have a target audience in mind for your game? Why/why not?
• Do you think i'm an idiot who's wrong about everything i've just posted?
• Or are you very cool irl and agree with me?

So, you really DO think about your target audience, and you know them well and are comfortable with what they may like or find funny, right? And making a game for friends is what drove most of the best games I have played that were non-commercial.


I do always have a target audience, because I make games as tutorials or for kids... my audience is a huge driving force in what I do.


I don't think you are an idiot, I just think you are already doing what makes your game work. Some people forget who will play their game and try and throw in a bathroom joke for the wrong audience, or a romance scene, or a break in the tone, or what-have-you, and it is jarring. Usually that is just baaaad....


Ha, I am not cool irl, so no worries there!

But this is what is fun about being indie, no boss to tell you what you do, so best make the most of it.

Ah, my dear, those who have natural talent have the luxury of following their instincts to success! [=

To me, a target audience is important.  One of the first rules of writing, whether it is commercial or not, is "Know your reader."  For RPGs, it is "Know your player" (i.e. target audience)

You are playing my song.

 

[Lunarea]

I think you misunderstand what target audience means. It's not always something that follows the demographics (ex. males age 18-30). A target audience is essentially the players you want to see playing and enjoying your game.

If you want to make your game for yourself and for people like you, then your target audience is you and people who have the same general interests as you. This means that your game should include the things you enjoy, and stay away from things you find annoying. So, if you like complexity and depth in a story, you wouldn't want to make a game plot that's rushed, shallow and full of holes. Making a bad plot is a lot faster, mind you. But investing extra time and effort into making it a good plot is something you're doing for the audience.

Having a target audience doesn't mean you're pegged into a rut and cannot be creative whatsoever. It just means that you're mindful of what elements you're adding to your project. You'd be doing this anyway, as a game with everything would be messy. But having something tangible to help you focus is a good thing.

The other part of minding your audience is remembering that someone else is playing your game. They won't have your knowledge of how everything works and how things should happen. So things like tutorials are important, as is anticipating that a player might play your project differently. They might approach the NPC from the side instead of the bottom, and if you don't anticipate this, you end up with a bugged and broken event.

So, yes, audience is important. If you want to share your project with others and you want them to actually enjoy the experience, then you have to keep them in mind when you're creating your game.

 

[hian]

It really depends on what kind of level of production we're talking about, and the level of control a producer has over his or her creation.

For AAA productions, target audiences and crowd retaining is a must, because every production is a huge risk paid for with what usually boils down to borrowed money I.E money from backers and shareholders that want to see return of revenue.

This is one of the biggest reasons you see so many tried and tested gameplay and story traditions being repeated ad nauseam.

Not picking a target audience, and not keeping them in mind during production is a short-cut to bankruptcy.

For indie productions, or for producers with deep personal pockets, this is a lesser issue. If you're making your truly personally project and backing all the costs yourself without being in danger of going broke, you can make whatever you want.

In that situation, I think people should just be openly creative and make what they feel like, and then people will either play or not.

Of course, these two extremes are two ends of a spectrum - and many people land somewhere closer to the middle.

I don't really care either way. People should be free to do with their own intellectual property as they please.

 

[mlogan]

I could pretty much quote all of Luna's post. She said it very well.

I don't think most people necessarily sit down and think deeply about their target audience before they start. Most start with a story or idea and as they go along, hopefully awareness of exactly who their audience will be builds as they go along. But if you don't think about the people playing it as you work, then it's likely they will not enjoy or understand your game.

 

[Vexed]

OK. So... I'm probably gonna come across as a hypocrite here, but bear with me.

I get where you're coming from and for me personally... I think a lot of people use "target audience" in the wrong sense. They create games, stories, whatever purposefully within extremely tight boundaries of what they think is acceptable or what they believe other people think is acceptable or "the right way" to do things. And then they project that onto other peoples work. I've had people say things to me like "You need to make that puzzle easier - you're limiting your target audience" or "Of course, your target audience will be smaller if you have a female lead". And that's just wrong. No one can tell you who your target audience is. But anyway, I digress.

As Luna said, your target audience is the people you make your game for. You might be your own target audience or you might be coveting that cult, niche, left-of-centre group that are into really abstract and confusing games because they're so cool and deep, or you might be making a game for soccer moms about... I dunno... whatever soccer moms like. Cheap wine and their lives back. Whoever it is, you should be mindful of them and make sure you're not making a game that's unplayable to the people you expect to enjoy it. Even if that's like, 5 people. They still need to be able to play and enjoy your game.

Now, here's the hypocrisy bit... I hate the whole target audience thing. I think my rebellious streak makes me just hate the idea of making something that appeals to "the masses", because I have an deep, deep, pathological desire to be considered cool. And massively commercial isn't cool. I hate the idea of compromising my creativity in any way. Because apparently I think I'm the Maya Angelou of RPGMaker or something.

However... I think about my target audience all the time. In pretty much everything I do when working on stories or games or art I'm thinking "I wonder how this will be received by people. What kind of people would like this... how can I make it more appealing to people like me."

So, bottom line, don't listen to me cause I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

 

[Lunarea]

@Vexed:

I think it's the term "target audience" itself that gives a mental block to a lot of people. For the most part, you can easily exchange it with the word "player" and the advice still applies.

 

[hian]

I think you misunderstand what target audience means. It's not always something that follows the demographics (ex. males age 18-30). A target audience is essentially the players you want to see playing and enjoying your game.


Having a target audience doesn't mean you're pegged into a rut and cannot be creative whatsoever. It just means that you're mindful of what elements you're adding to your project. You'd be doing this anyway, as a game with everything would be messy. But having something tangible to help you focus is a good thing.

Actually, I target demograpich is always a demographic - that's pretty much what the word means


Your second sentence actually states this explicitly. I think what you meant to say is that not all target demographics need to be molded based on age and gender.


Of course, a demographic on the other hand, isn't always a target demographic


You can have the target demographic be "people like me/you", but that would still be a demographic, as you and me both probably fit neatly into some demographic with other individuals that have overlapping personally traits like ourselves, like all people generally do, even if we're not aware of it ourselves.


If you're not really aiming for anyone consciously as you're making your game though, you don't really have a target demographic.


The thing about gender and age though, is that while those are only two factors, they are generally speaking two signifact factors when it comes to outlining of a project in it its early development phase.


If you're making a gory Alien FPS, that already means the demographic likely to show interest in your game will be, for example, young men(it might not be, but just for the sake of the argument). So, if you then design your game using primarely gameplay and story elements that are not popular among that demographic, then your game will probably fail on the market, because the demographic initially interested will be alianted by the nature of the actual game, while the demographics who might have enjoyed the game won't be buying it either because they're alianted by the concept.


Again, if you are making, or can make a game entirely for yourself, then people like you will be the demographic likely to play your game - but that's not a target demographic. After all, the term refers to a demographic that is targeted I.E the demgraphic you're aiming for, and aim requires a conscious purpose.


If you're not making an economically risky game, then target demographics don't really matter.


If you are, they are of crucial importance, and tailoring pretty much every aspect of your game to some demographic is probably the only way you're going to come out on top. That's just something most producers have to live with, even if it does go at the expense of artistic integrity.

I could pretty much quote all of Luna's post. She said it very well.


I don't think most people necessarily sit down and think deeply about their target audience before they start. Most start with a story or idea and as they go along, hopefully awareness of exactly who their audience will be builds as they go along. But if you don't think about the people playing it as you work, then it's likely they will not enjoy or understand your game.

Thankfully this is the case in the indie scene. Increase the monetary risks though, and target audiences, focus groups etc, become a major part of production even before the game is past its initial planning stage.

 

[Lunarea]

I was using the dictionary definition of demographic -- applying to the study of vital statistics such as age, gender, population density, etc. I don't think this definition would actually encompass the details that make up a group  (or in this case the target audience). If your group is defined by "people who like a good story", I don't think that's something that can be used as a demographics (as it can't necessarily be measured in a quantifiable way). But in any case, we're getting off-topic.

My point was that you don't need to look for demographics to know what your target audience is.

 

[GrandmaDeb]

It is actually really funny to think about it from this angle:


Why post it at all? WHy get feedback on screenies?


If you do not give a hoot about an audience, then why do people stalk their posts when they first put up a topic with a game they made!??!


Haha I know I catch myself doing this for games, lists, whatever. I want to know that people appreciate, (enjoy, like, find useful, whatever) what I did.


Of course, there is nothing wrong with not caring. There is nothing wrong with doing your own thing.


(I am showing my age.)

 

[hian]

I was using the dictionary definition of demographic -- applying to the study of vital statistics such as age, gender, population density, etc. I don't think this definition would actually encompass the details that make up a group  (or in this case the target audience). If your group is defined by "people who like a good story", I don't think that's something that can be used as a demographics (as it can't necessarily be measured in a quantifiable way). But in any case, we're getting off-topic.

My point was that you don't need to look for demographics to know what your target audience is.

There are many Dictionary definitions, most say something among the lines of :

"Demographics are the quantifiable statistics of a given population. Demographics are also used to identify the study of quantifiable subsets within a given population which characterize that population at a specific point in time."

or

"demographics : the qualities (such as age, sex, and income) of a specific group of people : a group of people that has a particular set of qualities"

People who like a good story is not a really good thing to go by in any type of design, since what people think constitutes a good story is completely subjective and varies a lot.

A target audience is always a demographic, because a target audience implies that there is a quantifiable common trait shared in general by the constituent members of the audience. If they don't share any traits, that's not a target audience - it's merely an audience.

If they share traits that identify them as a group e.g "likes turn-based RPGs, likes high fantasy, enjoys romantic plots", then that's a demographic.

If you're looking at a group with shared traits, you are looking at a demographic.

In either case, enough of me going off-topic.

I'm sorry.

 

[Lunarea]

I explained the specific definition I was using in my post - the study of vital statistics such as age, gender, population density, etc. And yes, I am aware that there are other definitions.

I think "characteristics" is a better term for defining groups, however. And I would use "characteristic" rather than "demographics" in the argument.

But this is all semantics and not at all important to the topic at hand.

 

[Vexed]

Of course, there is nothing wrong with not caring. There is nothing wrong with doing your own thing.

(I am showing my age.)

Not only do you make a great point that I agree with and am totally guilty of [Topic stalking, waiting desperately to see what people say while half wishing I didn't care]...

I also LOVE this song! I haven't heard it in forever and now I've listened to it 6 times in a row~

Anywho. GrandmaDeb really does make a very valid point. If we didn't care what people thought and were only making something to please ourselves, we wouldn't share our work for critique and feedback.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

IMHO, you always do have a "target audience" maybe sometimes unconsciously... "ANYONE" is still a "target audience"

 

[hian]

@grandmadeb and vexedenigma:

It's completely possible to make something only for oneself and still be asking for feedback and criticism.

Feedback and criticism are essential tools for improving - not necessarily tools for gauging popular interests.

If I post a picture for feedback, it's because I'm not happy with something, but can't necessarily put my finger on it. When I use the feedback to correct my work, that isn't for the sake of pleasing possible audience, but because I recognize the flaws of my creation when pointed out and agree that it needs change.

That being said, since I'm making my game primarily for myself, I'm not going to change things I'm satisfied with simply because someone personally don't like it.

So there you go. That's a luxury I can afford as a non-profit, one-man developer.

Personally, I never understood people's need of acknowledgment from peers. That being said, I don't feel any sense of pleasure from being complimented either, so maybe that's the reason.

 

[amerk]

Like other comments have said, you're not defining your audience like you may do with a commercialized product (age group, sex, etc), but you are defining interests.

Basically, if I make a racing game, I'm expecting my target audience is somebody interested in racing. I would design my game based around the mechanics of racing. If somebody who is not interested in the game plays it and finds they don't like it because of some of the standard mechanics that a racing game has, well, they weren't my target audience to begin with. However, if people from the target audience were to complain about specifics, I may be more inclined to listen to them since as a consumer familiar with the genre, they're going to be able to give me the feedback I need to improve.

The same can be said for the "oldschool" audience, the 8 bit and 16 bit lovers, the grinders, etc. That's not to say you can't generate interest from outside of the audience. I generally don't care for racing games myself, but I've always had a love for the Burnout series. Just because you are making a game for a specific audience doesn't mean others might not be interested.

Most of the time that "target audience" comes up, at least in the recent conversations I've seen, seem to be a result of games that include a certain amount of difficulty and grind, save points instead of saving anywhere, random encounters, old retro graphics and music, world maps, side quests, and onwards. The "target audience" in these cases seem to be the retro lovers who grew up with NES and SNES games.

Edit: That doesn't mean you have to have a specific audience. In communities like this, a target audience isn't really needed, unless you want feedback from that specific group. If you're going to specific portals or sites, to promote a type of game, then knowing the type of consumer you are dealing with is important. After all, providing a commercial retro style game to consumers who hate the genre could hurt your profits, especially if you had to pay into fees just to get onto that site.

 

[Shaz]

Your target audience is the group of people you WANT to play your game.  It's that simple.

If you don't care if NOBODY plays your game, then your target audience is you.

If you want other RPG Maker creators to play your game, then your target audience is people on this forum, and others like them.  You probably do not need to include tutorials or mouse control for these people.

If you want to sell your game on a casual portal (players who like HOGs and don't know what to do if they can't use a mouse), you need to give them tutorials, sometimes mouse control, and sometimes a walkthrough or strategy guide.

Your target audience will help shape the mechanics, story and quality of your game.  It will determine whether they are likely to accept adult content, gore, grinding, romance, etc.

If you WANT a target audience, you need to look at what's in your game and what sort of people would find it enjoyable - if that doesn't cover the group you want to aim for, or doesn't cover a large enough demographic, then you either need to make changes for them, or reconsider why you are aiming for them or how important your target audience is to you.

People who WANT their game played by more players, and those who are making a living selling their games, will be more concerned about their target audience and making their game fit that group of people.