What is your favorite battle system type?

What type of battle system do you like best?


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KawaiiKid

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I'm just curious as to what your favorite style of battle system is to play. There are pros and cons to each, and I'm wondering why you like your chosen style. I prefer standard turn based. Although ATB can be fun because it's more interactive with characters with high agility, it can get annoying to watch those bars fill up. CTB is fun as well, but with that kind of battle system you basically have to base all your combat around moving around the turn order.
 

HexMozart88

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All depends for me. I like faster turn-based battle systems, so I've liked battles of all types, as long as turns don't take forever.
 

ave36

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My favorite is ATB without wait. But currently I have to use Ellye's ATB with full wait, because the excellent wait-less PATB plugin has yet to be completely debugged.
 

LVGames

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I like using turn. That is what I use for my game.
 

Ellie Jane

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If it's side-view I prefer turn based every time.
 

Wavelength

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@KawaiiKid First of all, isn't ATB without wait the same exact thing as a CTB? :) (If I'm wrong, then please explain the difference to me!) Additionally, would it be useful to include Action Battle Systems (perhaps with and without a separate combat screen, since they make for much different experiences) in the poll, or do you consider ABS's to be outside the scope of the discussion?

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My own personal favorite type of RPG combat, by far, is an Action Battle System. I love how they incorporate both real time and real movement, I love how they make me think fast, and I love how they allow me to succeed or fail mostly on my own skill. I love the visceral feel of my actual button presses cutting through enemies, and the excitement of barely getting out of the way of a big attack. Some of the Star Ocean and Tales of games make combat feel like a true joy, to the point where I spend hours running around fighting encounters with minimal reward, simply because they're so much fun.

Of course, ABS's take a lot of work to do right - the feel and flow of you and the enemy attacking each other (and subsequent staggering) has to be designed well or the whole thing can come apart at the seams.

I tend to like ABS's that include a separate combat screen (after you touch an encounter on the adventure map), because it allows me to stay relaxed while wandering maps, and then be ready for an adrenaline-fueling battle. Not only that, but there is a clear beginning and end to the encounter, telling its own little story. If combat takes place on the adventure map (which some people do like), I tend to get mentally fatigued because I have to be ready to fight-or-flight at every single moment.

Similarly, I tend to enjoy true ATB systems (where time continues to flow and enemies continue to attack as you navigate menus) for their real-time, think-quick aspects. It can be engaging (even manic) and keep you connected to the action at all times. I think a lot of RPG players don't like this dynamic, but I think it's really enjoyable and stops combat from slowing to a slog. If you're going to pause the action when it's time for the player to select a move, then you might as well skip the middleman and convert to a CTB.

It's important for ATB systems to feel brisk and "continuous". If you ever spend more than one full second doing nothing but watching ATB bars fill up, that's probably a flaw in the system's design. Designers can get around this by having the bars fill up quickly enough that there are usually multiple characters waiting for commands, or by having the flow of time (ATB fill, DoT effects, status duration countdown, etc.) automatically speed up whenever there are no characters or enemies taking nor ready to take an action.

I am a big fan of the tactical considerations that CTB systems offer. Some of the best ones (Grandia 2 and Trails in the Sky come to mind as personal favorites) offer a lot of ways to manipulate and take advantage of battlers' turn order, which to me is a very fun mechanic that feels a lot more engaging and "playable" than a simple turn-based equivalent. Poorly-designed CTB's, on the other hand, can be badly imbalanced or feel like a needlessly complex version of a turn-based system.

The classic Turn-Based Combat often bores me, for its lack of tactical depth or viscerality. But such a system can absolutely be great if the designer thinks through a dynamic they want to achieve and designs the system accordingly, streamlining away most of the RPG mechanics that appear in most RPG's "just because it's an RPG" (hit/miss calculations are often a good example). Often, I find that Turn-Based RPG Combat works best when designers add one or two extra resources to manage beyond the basics of HP and MP. A very well-thought-out, balanced, unique, and coherent kit of Skills for each character can also elevate a turn-based combat system, as can unique and memorable enemies that make each troop feel like a different experience (think Undertale).
 

pasunna

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don't like Atb without wait...
I like to think twice to do something
actually it's not about system for me

it's about skill and combat design in that game
if it just spams attack/magic around
I don't feel the difference

skill synergy is very good thing to make turn base game interesting
you do some skill get buf for some skill
make someone fear and gain buff for some skill
reflect element passive when transform to something
some skill that shift enemy turn away

I like turn base that make me actually think
but all in all I need to admit that
the flashy visual and character help a lot more than system :kaojoy:
every rpg game got the same mechanic root
so... if it's not in the graphic style I like
hardly I will care about system...
 

TheoAllen

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@Wavelength
I don't play RPG which was the pioneer of ATB. So my frame of reference was mostly done in RM games. The pitfall of using this battle system is most of the time is I don't have enough time to digest the skill description and what it does. While doing so, the enemy is attacking. Or if I panicked and pick a wrong skill or action. I feel cheated. If it's continuous ATB, I probably prefer if you get rid of the menu selection entirely and just use the hotkey for various actions. That probably would be better.

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Speaking of the battle system, here's my order based on my fave

Action Battle System
Most of the games I play are using real-time action. I like to feel awesome in a game. And real-time action bring the true feeling of this. The satisfaction of hitting the target, dodging, and SFX. In fact, there's only one game made in RM that I had so much fun and forgot it was made in RM because it was using real-time battle.

Free Turn Battle / Instant turn battle
It is basically like standard turn battle, however, you act instantly after inputting a command to a character. You can put in any order that you want. So you can have a strategy like land debuff, use a buff, and then deal damage in a single turn in the correct order. Sadly, I don't see many RM games use this type of battle system.

Tactical Battle
Position matters. Order of the attack matters. Discovering the efficiency of the attack is fun. Maybe I need to take down that unit first then do this. However, it tends to drain me because of the tactical possibility I need to consider.

CTB
This battle system is more like "deal with what you have" type of battle. You have this order of the turn, then you have to consider is the best action. Usually, you don't have many options. I don't exactly hate this. But I probably prefer the other type of battle system.

Standard Turn Battle
I would call this is a "spam attack" or "spam skill" battle as it usually stat a determined battle. In which everything is determined by stat. The biggest offender being the agility based order (and I don't know in what order they're executed). It isn't a major reason for me to stop playing the game if I still have something to look up in the game (story or other reason).

ATB
I already have explained it above.

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To summarize. I like to control the flow of my actors and the battle in general. The more me being locked in a certain way, I probably not going to like it.
 

HexMozart88

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Wow. A lot of people love ABSs. I feel like I'm probably the only one that dislikes them, LOL.
 

KawaiiKid

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Wow. A lot of people love ABSs. I feel like I'm probably the only one that dislikes them, LOL.
Nah I agree. I like RPGs for the tactics of it. If I wanted an action game I'd play that. The problem is, you need to have interesting or difficult battles to make it tactically fun.
 

orochii

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I don't really care about battle system types, because all of them can be done well and bad.

Action RPGs are more active, which somehow makes them more popular or something, there is a trend with that nowadays, like FF7R being action instead of "active turn", or Shining Force (the actual line of tactical RPGs from the Shining series) turned into an action RPG. But there has been a lot of bad, shallow action RPGs too (speaking of Shining, Shining Soul is horrible). I think each type has its own feel, an impact on how you perceive battle, and I think that each can be used well, since a "type" doesn't really determine every single mechanic or nuance a specific incarnation has.

But personally, or maybe more as a developer, I think I'm right now more interested in active-turn battle, since that's the game I'm developing right now. And I'd like to try out making some action RPG. Or maybe going back to my puzzle-battle game. xD
 

Wavelength

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@Wavelength
I don't play RPG which was the pioneer of ATB. So my frame of reference was mostly done in RM games. The pitfall of using this battle system is most of the time is I don't have enough time to digest the skill description and what it does. While doing so, the enemy is attacking. Or if I panicked and pick a wrong skill or action. I feel cheated. If it's continuous ATB, I probably prefer if you get rid of the menu selection entirely and just use the hotkey for various actions. That probably would be better.
All of these are fair points and indeed drawbacks of real-time, continuous ATB systems - which are to be balanced against the frenetic pace and high skill expression that such a system offers.

As you mentioned, hotkeys are a very good cure for making sure that commands can be issued at a high rate (I worked on a continuous ATB commission once, and we spent a lot of time making sure that any command could be issued within two clicks or button presses and was visually represented onscreen).

Also worth remembering when designing a continuous ATB system, especially if you're using menus, is that the player should be able to remember all of what their characters can do. That usually means keep the number of skills in a kit low, keep the effects clear (say "reduces defense by 50%" rather than "weakens target"), and most importantly, never change around what skills are available mid-combat unless you want a really high learning curve.
 

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