What Makes A Good Game?

[SalyrPls]

I'm curious as to what all of you guys think.

What makes a good RM game to you?
Is it the graphics, sound, battle mechanics, story, or all of the above?

I'm currently working on finishing my first game, which has been 2 years in development, and before I release it, I'd like to know
what people like to see in an RPGmaker game.

 

[Silenity]

Some say story.
Some say replay ability.
Some say mechanics.

It's a pretty open ended question.
I enjoy games for their mechanics and replay ability over their story most of the time. If it's a good story it's just a bonus for me.
I didn't think the Skyrim story was all that fantastic but I have about 1,500 hours played on it because I love the replay ability along with its core mechanics. But mods helped that a lot.
Also, I like RuneScape because of its super simple mechanics that can still have depth. Same with Fire Emblem and Tactic games. I love strategy mechanics.
You'll get a different answer from each person you ask.
For RPGM games specifically it's still the same. I love the games for the mechanics and gameplay before the story. One of my favorite RM games is The Homework Salesman and it has a decent story but I mainly enjoyed its gameplay.

 

[Fernyfer775]

For me...numbers. I love numbers. The more I can tweak and minimize/maximize gear, stats, skills, whatever, the more I love it. Grinding for more job points, exp, etc, just to get that next skill up or unlock that new class is what gets me sucked in. Runescape for example, as Silenity mentioned, is god awful boring to me, to be honest...buuuuut, that hasn't stopped me from playing that game for 12+ years and have a character with almost all skills maxed out at 99+ lol. It's something about watching my character's numbers (level, skills, whatever) that sucks me in.

EDIT: There's really no right or wrong answer. It's all very subjective to the player. What one finds fun, another will find to be horrible.

 

[SalyrPls]

Some say story.
Some say replay ability.
Some say mechanics.

It's a pretty open ended question.
I enjoy games for their mechanics and replay ability over their story most of the time. If it's a good story it's just a bonus for me.
I didn't think the Skyrim story was all that fantastic but I have about 1,500 hours played on it because I love the replay ability along with its core mechanics. But mods helped that a lot.
Also, I like RuneScape because of its super simple mechanics that can still have depth. Same with Fire Emblem and Tactic games. I love strategy mechanics.
You'll get a different answer from each person you ask.
For RPGM games specifically it's still the same. I love the games for the mechanics and gameplay before the story. One of my favorite RM games is The Homework Salesman and it has a decent story but I mainly enjoyed its gameplay.

Thank you! I guess you're right, it really is open ended. Would it be a wise idea to try and perfect the mechanics before perfecting all story elements?

 

[SalyrPls]

For me...numbers. I love numbers. The more I can tweak and minimize/maximize gear, stats, skills, whatever, the more I love it. Grinding for more job points, exp, etc, just to get that next skill up or unlock that new class is what gets me sucked in. Runescape for example, as Silenity mentioned, is god awful boring to me, to be honest...buuuuut, that hasn't stopped me from playing that game for 12+ years and have a character with almost all skills maxed out at 99+ lol. It's something about watching my character's numbers (level, skills, whatever) that sucks me in.

Do you prefer slower level-ups? or ones that happen frequently?

 

[Fernyfer775]

That really depends on so many other things. For one, do I feel as if every battle I finish is making a difference in one way or another? If there's a slow leveling system (like in the Xenosaga games for example), then there has to be something else that's dragging me along (like a carrot on a stick), like gaining ability points to unlock a new skill or unlock a new class. I personally don't mind games where I have to grind, in fact, whether or not I NEED to grind, I do so anyways just because I like to see those numbers climb. If the battle system is interesting enough, then I'll keep at it.

 

[SalyrPls]

That really depends on so many other things. For one, do I feel as if every battle I finish is making a difference in one way or another? If there's a slow leveling system (like in the Xenosaga games for example), then there has to be something else that's dragging me along (like a carrot on a stick), like gaining ability points to unlock a new skill or unlock a new class. I personally don't mind games where I have to grind, in fact, whether or not I NEED to grind, I do so anyways just because I like to see those numbers climb. If the battle system is interesting enough, then I'll keep at it.

Is a simple-ish Final Fantasy style battle system (ATB, animated, etc) "interesting" enough? Or are people sick of them?

 

[Fernyfer775]

To me, it depends on how the ATB is implemented. I've played all too many rpg maker games that use ATB, but there's really nothing special about it. There are no skills that can push back an enemy's ATB bar, nothing that can help the player get extra turns (other than arbitrary things like having more AGI), and to me, it feels just like the default battle system, except that now I have to wait for these little bars to fill up. Some of these games use ATB just to use it, without much more thought going into WHY their battle system is ATB.

Games like Grandia on the other hand...now THAT is an amazing ATB system. You can push back enemy turns, completely cancel them, and there's a lot more to it than just "wait for bar to fill up...attack...wait for bar to fill up...attack...etc."

 

[Kes]

[dpost]SalyrPls[/dpost]

There is another thing, not a Rule like the double-posting one, but a request we make for good practice. Please do not quote whole posts just to indicate who you are answering. It makes the page slow to load and to scroll down, especially for those who are accessing this on their phones. Instead, if you want to make it clear who you are replying to, use the @memberusername convention, like this: @SalyrPls Tagging someone like this also lets them know you have replied, if they have that option turned on in their Preferences.

Turning now to your question, you are right that everyone will probably give a slightly different answer. For me personally, I enjoy the story almost as much as the game play. But in game play I include more than just the battle system. For example, is there exploration that is rewarded? I much prefer 'finding' some of my loot rather than have every single item in a chest, but there are others for whom this would be a total turn off.

Reading what you have written it seems to me that game play is your strength, rather than story telling. I may be wrong, you could be a great story teller, but it doesn't interest you. Whether it's a strength or an interest, that is the thing to focus on first. You will make a much better game if you use your strengths as your foundation. Once you've done that, then you can pay more attention to the other aspects, linking them back to your strength if that is the only way to motivate you to do them. e.g. You might not be interested in mapping much - ask yourself "does this map support and enhance my game play?" Notice the two verbs there - at the very least it should support, and ideally it should enhance.

Because story is important for a lot of potential players, I don't think it can be neglected too much. At the very least you should have a plausible reason why the hero party are doing what they're doing. You need to have a plausible resolution of whatever it was that set them off. What happens in between those two points is up to you.

 

[Jef299]

Heart. It's gotta have HEART!

 

[gstv87]

I'd like to know what people like to see in an RPGmaker game.

I guess, it has to do with either
a clever use of the 16b style that was signature of games that many of us played when they were popular, that we can now recreate with much easier-to-use tools, or,
a clever design that breaks with the signature 16b style that we all know, and pushes the limits of the engine closer to the style of other engines built from the ground up, while still being made on an easy-to-use and easy-to-learn program.

that.
that whole definition is what should be pondered.
................ I'd love to see a German or Japanese speaker summarize all that into one word.

 

[barnzie8]

What makes one game fun doesn't necessarily work in a different game. Some games do one thing great which can make you forget its other faults. I would say balance should be a top priority, it can feel cheap to instantly die out of now where.

 

[SalyrPls]

[dpost]SalyrPls[/dpost]

There is another thing, not a Rule like the double-posting one, but a request we make for good practice. Please do not quote whole posts just to indicate who you are answering. It makes the page slow to load and to scroll down, especially for those who are accessing this on their phones. Instead, if you want to make it clear who you are replying to, use the @memberusername convention, like this: @SalyrPls Tagging someone like this also lets them know you have replied, if they have that option turned on in their Preferences.

Turning now to your question, you are right that everyone will probably give a slightly different answer. For me personally, I enjoy the story almost as much as the game play. But in game play I include more than just the battle system. For example, is there exploration that is rewarded? I much prefer 'finding' some of my loot rather than have every single item in a chest, but there are others for whom this would be a total turn off.

Reading what you have written it seems to me that game play is your strength, rather than story telling. I may be wrong, you could be a great story teller, but it doesn't interest you. Whether it's a strength or an interest, that is the thing to focus on first. You will make a much better game if you use your strengths as your foundation. Once you've done that, then you can pay more attention to the other aspects, linking them back to your strength if that is the only way to motivate you to do them. e.g. You might not be interested in mapping much - ask yourself "does this map support and enhance my game play?" Notice the two verbs there - at the very least it should support, and ideally it should enhance.

Because story is important for a lot of potential players, I don't think it can be neglected too much. At the very least you should have a plausible reason why the hero party are doing what they're doing. You need to have a plausible resolution of whatever it was that set them off. What happens in between those two points is up to you.

Oh... I don't recall double posting... Did I double post?

 

[Wavelength]

What makes a game "good" is so subjective and situational, but what I've found in my experience is that the games I consider good are the ones that engage me on either a visceral, strategic, or emotional level. A game that can engage me on two of these levels is truly great, and I've yet to find the game that hits all three.

• Viscerality: I feel like I am a part of the game, I get a sense of flow and connection, I feel an almost physical impact when I act in the video game world, my senses are intrigued, the interface is as natural as moving my limbs
• Strategy: I am constantly thinking, and making interesting decisions between multiple options, builds, or paths, all of which I would like to pursue, no choices are obvious and I never feel like I am "going through the motions"
• Emotion: I care about what I see, I want the best things for some or all characters and identify with their plights, I internalize the consequences of my actions as if they were real, I believe the world I'm in

These are obviously not specific to RPGs or RPG Maker, but I feel these three (especially viscerality) sometimes get lost when our indie developers try to pack in too much content or emulate things they liked from popular games without really recognizing why those things worked so well.

Heart. It's gotta have HEART!

You'd certainly like this store!!

 

[Doombringer]

^Inb4 there's an actual human heart sitting in a jar next to the cashier. xD

On topic:
To be honest Echo607 perfectly describes what I think on the matter with RM and since I can't say it better myself:

 

[bokunoyuki]

For RM games specifically, I look for good writing and value that higher than other aspects. Though of course, engaging gameplay is important. But if your game is story heavy and dialogue heavy, which is safe to assume for most of these games, then I am very critical about the plot, the characters, and the pacing of the story. Characters need to sound human when they speak, and not be your typical witty protagonist who has something to say about everything.

The plot doesn't have to necessarily be unique, but executed in a creative and structured manner. Has the 100 year war destroyed most of the world because of the dark lord? Okay cool, are you playing as a rag-tag band of youths who conveniently have no parents and set out to beat the big baddy? Boring. Are the band of youths actually not so innocent and have their own motivations for going on this big adventure? That's a little more interesting, or at least, has the potential of being more interesting. Bad writing is a big turn-off for me, and other than the tilesets and cool effects, what I look for in previews and screenshots of a game, is a sample of good dialogue.

 

[Jiffy]

In my eyes, I enjoy seeing games that take RPG Maker and turn it into something unique. I greatly enjoy playing games made in RM that aren't RPGs, as I know it was a challenge for development and that the dev truly loves his game to dedicate so much time. Now, don't get me wrong RPGs are great, I enjoy playing RM RPGs too

 

[Alex Nearwoods]

For me the 2 must have things in any game are Story and good Gameplay.

 

[ItzTerry]

Not sure if this has been said, but changing the bloody interface.

 

[SalyrPls]

^Inb4 there's an actual human heart sitting in a jar next to the cashier. xD

On topic:
To be honest Echo607 perfectly describes what I think on the matter with RM and since I can't say it better myself:

I loooove Echo DDD