What status effects do you think could use more effects?

[Probotector 200X]

@Tai_MT: Well, I think it depends on how things are set-up. My problem with bosses having lower chances to get status effects, is that it makes you feel like you wasted a turn trying to give them a status effect but failing. It's a gamble, like those high critical hit rate, but low hit rate attacks that always seem to miss...

I know it's different when you have attacks that damage and add states, but...well, I guess maybe we go about states differently?

My point is that the status effect is an option. Sure, maybe the half-damage poison is weaker on the boss than your other skills, but isn't that how it should be? Slow and steady...damage them slowly over time, while still being able to dodge, guard, or heal while they are taking damage, instead of smashing them every turn. Also, I like stacking states, and different states with the same thing, so like, you can poison, burn, and bleed the boss, all different forms of "slip damage" but they stack...In normal battles, it doesn't go on long enough, but in a boss fight, it's a useful attrition strategy.

I love the idea of characters who focus on buffing states and/or debuffing states. Sure, make the warrior and white mage and whatever options, but make the status effects a viable option too. I mean, if a boss has much higher defense than a normal enemy, isn't that the same as poison hurting them less? Your Warrior has the same problem. The boss is so tough, the warrior's hits feel half as effective. If you want to take that to another level, I think there's a cool Slip damage script that lets you make slip damage effects using formulas, and can be based on the inflictor's stats (that would fit nicely)

I don't know. Gotta experiment myself to see what I really want to do with how states work.

 

[Tai_MT]

I'm just saying that as an avid RPG player...  Inflicting states that don't do much damage just makes me not use those moves.  When my physical strikes are doing more than the "slip damage" and I didn't have to waste an entire turn inflicting the state, it just seems like a massive waste of time to even bother with status effects in the first place.

Even in Pokémon, I don't really bother with status effects.  I mean, unless I'm trying to catch a new Pokémon, I don't go out of my way to inflict anything.  Even then, when I'm trying to make a capture, it's either sleep or paralysis just so I can improve the chances of the ball working.  These status effects are really so negligible in that game, that if I'm inflicted with them, I don't even bother to cure them unless I absolutely have to (like a burn or poison).  I understand that these status effects are best used against actual human players...  But against AI...  Well, they're kind of useless and pointless.  The only RPG I ever played where I absolutely HAD to have a status effect was Final Fantasy X.  I couldn't kill Seymour on the mountain 'cause he'd hit his overdrive or whatever it was called and just merc me in one hit.  Until I discovered...  He can be poisoned, and poison damage doesn't raise his Overdrive meter.  The was the first and ONLY time I ever used a status effect in that game.  I used it because I had to in order to win.  I used it because it was the most effective strategy for beating the boss that I could find.

Here's my point with the "the state works differently on a boss" nonsense:  Most standard enemies in any RPG don't last much beyond 3 or 4 hits.  Usually a single round of combat, sometimes two rounds of combat.  So, you would NEVER use these states on a standard enemy.  It's a waste of a turn.  It's a waste of MP.  So then, you also make a second version of this state and you make it for use against boss creatures.  Okay, a boss creature is something you'd like to inflict a state on...  Except...  Well...  It's not really enough damage to make it worthwhile.  When mashing "Attack" each turn does more damage than your Poison each turn, there's really no sense in even using it on the boss either.  Sure, you could argue that it's "great strategy", but most players won't use any kind of strategy if they aren't forced to by your battle system.  If the boss fight can be won without navigating a menu to pick a spell or item, the player prefers to do that.  That is, mash attack until the boss monster is dead.  And hey, let's face it, most boss monsters are basically "whack until dead" affairs anyway with no real strategy involved.  Or, if there is strategy involved, it's fairly simplistic and just forces the player to change their routine from "mash attack" to something else equally as mindless.

The thing about my states is that it's not really a "gamble" when you use them.  Not all of my bosses are resistant to everything.  I know my previous posts make it SOUND like a gamble...  But, it's a way of balancing the spells they are linked to.  45% to 50% chance of inflicting a state on an enemy while also doing damage is a pretty good rate, especially with no resistances to the state you're trying to put on them.  You can fairly accurately bet that you'll land the state in the first or second cast.  I even add in that it can be upgraded to nearly a 90% state infliction upon usage of the spell.  That means, even if there's a resistance to the state on the boss, there's still a fairly decent chance you might land the effect anyway.  There's a design reason for this as well:  I want a "Utility Mage" to be as viable an option as a "DPS Mage".  The trees for my spells are mostly divided into "this side does more damage" and "this side adds states and debuffs and other things instead of damage".  The option exists for either type of play.  There are even some options where you can kind of mix and match both sides.

But, it's basically how you would realistically approach fixing a problem most RPGs tend to have.  Maybe others have a better system than I do, I don't know for sure.  I just know how I've played RPGs in the past and how I've seen others play RPGs in the past.  This is the most logical solution I could come up with given the experience I've had with the subject matter.

I do have characters that focus on buffing and debuffing as well, but they're not played quite that straight.  Most every class in my game can be played at least two ways viably.  I have no healer, but I do have a class that can remove status effects (since my status effects are somewhat powerful... as they should be, to ensure use, even against fairly standard enemies).  I even have a class that's entirely immune to ALL status effects.

The entire premise of my game has been "make every choice a viable option".  That means, every story choice, every quest choice, every level up choice, every character choice, who you choose for a party, what you choose to equip characters with.  I have been trying to code it in such a way that there is no "wrong answer" in how you play.  So, I adopted what I use with my status effects because it fits that the best.

If you want to go with status effects instead of pure magic power, it's in there, and it's VERY viable.  In some instances, it's as strong as going a "pure DPS" method of using the spell.  Let me show you an example:

If you take my Fire spell which has a chance to inflict Burn and go the route that makes "Burned" the strongest it can be it will look something like this:

Burn

90% Chance to inflict

10% Damage each turn

8 Turn duration

But, you could also change that so that instead of those, you could do more damage to an enemy in another way:

Burn

90% Chance to inflict

Debuffs Defense

Damage From Fire Up 50%

It really all depends on what you want the spell to do in my game for how it works.  Sure, you always have the "base damage" from casting the spell itself, but the burn can be even deadlier than the initial casting.  That's why it exists in my game in the way it does.  I honestly think it solves the problem of how to implement status effects well.

Maybe someone else can think of a better way to do it.  I don't know.  I just know that mine currently works, and works well.  Initial battle tests have gone quite well and in some cases, the states have even been worth inflicting upon standard enemies (especially if they have resistances to certain elements or attack types... it can nullify some of those in order to make a current party viable where in other RPGs it would not be).

 

[CWells]

Well since VX Ace tends to focus on percentage, you could play with HP pools. Enemies with large enough HP pools are what justify using spells like poison that may hit with 8% slip damage. Here is something I started putting together this morning:

First the state, poison:

-8% HRG  for 5-7 turns.

Pale Crier:

One of a breed of creatures with immense defenses but weak immune system.

Physical and Magical damage resist is 65%. (PDR and MDR 35%) health range can be anywhere between 4000-6000.

Weak to:

Poison (unfortunately for VX Ace states. weak to a state like poison only means higher chance of being inflicted with it)

Toxin (Comes from a rare reptilian skill called Toxic Bite. can stack with poison but also cuts parameters including HP, ATK, MAT, DEF, MDF. It's a special)

Burn

Cold

Offensive debuffs.

High offensive damage output but is slow.

This is the type of enemy in which percentage based offensive states like poison can really shine. Now how these monsters are sent out into the world, how frequently a player must come across them, I would use them sparingly. You certainly wouldn't want this type of enemy being the norm, given its special traits. But still not as rare as white buffalo. Maybe have some in a cave or in special realms. And perhaps during the story, fight a boss one that may send these out.

You can either focus on buffing your attack boost against an enemy with more than half resistance to damage or you can sicken them, petrify them, etc.

 

[HumanNinjaToo]

When I make skills that have status effects for enemies, they also do damage. Also, the status has 100% chance to work. The way I've balanced that is by using a CBS so skills taKe time to charge or only last 2- 4 turns which go by more quickly in CBS. Also, most of my status effects are compounded when another skill is used.

 

[Zachy]

I think a lot of statuses like poison or blindness could use a realistic change, but it all depends on the balance of your game.

Poison - Consistent HP damage and general penalties to stats like evasion or accuracy, depending on what kind of poison it might be

Sleep - Inactivty and penalties to defence, evasion, etc.

Blindness - Low accuracy and penalties to stats like evasion and defence

These are just a few examples I could think of, but I'm sure there are plenty of other changes that could be made.

 

[Probotector 200X]

@Tai_MT: Well...your system sounds pretty customizable, and pretty cool...so, it's not really fair to compare to messing around with basic stuff, like what I was mainly talking about. Like, I'm just talking about simple editor stuff, little to no scripting. But it does sound like your system works for you, and that's cool.

For me, well, I notice things I don't like in games and try to make them work for me.

For example, many RPGs encourage you to save all your MP for the boss, because the enemies are so weak and you can just spam attack to beat them, only needing to heal every five battles or so. That's lame. Then you get to the boss, spam your strongest skills/spells, and it's over way too fast. Also lame. So what do I try to do? I try and make the enemies more challenging, and strategic. I try to make the bosses more of a threat. So you actually need to choose if you wanna save your MP for the boss or not. Even if you do, it's still gonna take a lot to bring it down. So, like, maybe half-poison seems lame, but maybe your physical attacks aren't that effective? Maybe half-poison isn't an alternative to using your basic attack each turn, but an alternative to using one of your weakest skills each turn? That's what I'm going for.

I haven't tested it yet, and I hear testing is one of the longest processes in RPG making. I have tested -10% Max HP poison (default in XP at least) against bosses, and it's really strong. It's like putting the boss on a 10 turn counter, and you don't even have to attack, you can sit back and guard and heal the whole time, or lay more status effects on it. It's very effective to take down bosses much too strong for your party on low levels with poison like this, but I don't want to make the bosses immune to poison. That's...part of testing.

Also, status effects in Pokémon are awesome. They work even during the "final battle"...and, they are very useful. It some ways, they are best used in situations like I've tested in XP, ways to take down enemies much stronger than you. One paralyze turn loss can change the entire course of the battle. Sleep sometimes last only 1 turn, but lasts even 5 sometimes. Don't forget that Pokémon has several status effects that aren't displayed by your Pokémon and can't be cured by items. Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, Fire Spin, etc. If you don't just trounce everyone in-game with your strongest Pokémon, utilizing status effects to even the odds can be extremely satisfying.

 

[Tai_MT]

@Tai_MT: Well...your system sounds pretty customizable, and pretty cool...so, it's not really fair to compare to messing around with basic stuff, like what I was mainly talking about. Like, I'm just talking about simple editor stuff, little to no scripting. But it does sound like your system works for you, and that's cool.

For me, well, I notice things I don't like in games and try to make them work for me.

For example, many RPGs encourage you to save all your MP for the boss, because the enemies are so weak and you can just spam attack to beat them, only needing to heal every five battles or so. That's lame. Then you get to the boss, spam your strongest skills/spells, and it's over way too fast. Also lame. So what do I try to do? I try and make the enemies more challenging, and strategic. I try to make the bosses more of a threat. So you actually need to choose if you wanna save your MP for the boss or not. Even if you do, it's still gonna take a lot to bring it down. So, like, maybe half-poison seems lame, but maybe your physical attacks aren't that effective? Maybe half-poison isn't an alternative to using your basic attack each turn, but an alternative to using one of your weakest skills each turn? That's what I'm going for.

I haven't tested it yet, and I hear testing is one of the longest processes in RPG making. I have tested -10% Max HP poison (default in XP at least) against bosses, and it's really strong. It's like putting the boss on a 10 turn counter, and you don't even have to attack, you can sit back and guard and heal the whole time, or lay more status effects on it. It's very effective to take down bosses much too strong for your party on low levels with poison like this, but I don't want to make the bosses immune to poison. That's...part of testing.

Also, status effects in Pokémon are awesome. They work even during the "final battle"...and, they are very useful. It some ways, they are best used in situations like I've tested in XP, ways to take down enemies much stronger than you. One paralyze turn loss can change the entire course of the battle. Sleep sometimes last only 1 turn, but lasts even 5 sometimes. Don't forget that Pokémon has several status effects that aren't displayed by your Pokémon and can't be cured by items. Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, Fire Spin, etc. If you don't just trounce everyone in-game with your strongest Pokémon, utilizing status effects to even the odds can be extremely satisfying.

See, I've created enemies that can basically ignore your magic spells.  No, not just certain elements, but your spells entirely.  I have skills that inflict status ailments that aren't magical in nature as well.  I even have an enemy or two that can't be killed except with status effects.  To keep players from hoarding MP for a boss fight, you have to invent ways for them to use it, or want to use it constantly.  Making bosses strong against magic keeps players from spamming all their strongest spells on the boss, but for the same token, you don't want them to never be able to cast magic on a boss.  I've found that boss fights that are basically some sort of "puzzle" or "skilled challenge" instead of straight "whack until dead with strongest skills" tend to be more satisfying to players.

Also, if you include duration limits on your status effects, you don't have to worry about a party just standing around healing until the boss dies.  Equipping bosses and enemies with skills that cure these status ailments also helps.  Or, equipping these bosses/enemies with restorative abilities can help.  Perhaps Poison only works and works well if you manage to Silence the boss so it can't heal itself or get rid of the status effect?  Maybe Silence only lasts 3 turns?

I don't tend to use status effects in Pokémon.  I tend to use other things that change the flow of battle.  I am particular with Whirlwind (great for getting rid of enemy buffs or for making the enemy have to throw out something weaker in a fight first).  I tend to rely on moves with a form of gimmick, or upon moves that vary up my effectiveness in a fight.  I don't particularly enjoy having to rely on the RNG to see if the enemy doesn't take a turn during the round 'cause they were Paralyzed.  Though, I will very much enjoy getting the enemy to Flinch.  Though, I've never really had to "Brute Force" my way through the Elite four or any other battle in Pokémon.  Each game seems to be getting progressively easier to slaughter them, especially when you pick up the most versatile mons along the way.

 

[Harmill]

I'm trying out making my Poison slip damage scale with the LCK stat. The idea is that it's damage is semi-consistent so that it's useful against normal battles and boss battles. I haven't tested it out much yet, though, so I don't know what side effects might arise from this change - only that it's now more beneficial to use with a character with higher LCK, which effectively limits which characters can use that status ailment efficiently.

I don't have the mentality of "why waste a turn inflicting Poison when I can just use my normal attack every turn for more damage?". The thing about Poison is that it does it's damage every turn until the status either naturally goes away or the enemy cures itself of the ailment. So you're not pressured to constantly attack to deal damage. You can set up bosses that are dangerous enough that you can't afford to attack it every turn because you need everyone setting up protective barriers against it's harmful attacks, curing from those harmful attacks, etc. So if you can inflict Poison on the boss, you have that consistent damage while you can then spend a turn where everyone is doing something protective for the party. Maybe the Warrior needs to spend a turn using a healing potion or something. There are bosses where physical damage dealers aren't very useful due to the boss's stats or their attack patterns (maybe he has a nasty counter-attack for every physical damage). So I enjoy inflicting states that deal slip damage. I especially enjoy stacking up as many as I can so that the boss gets "nuked" by taking slip damage from 3 different sources at the end of his turn.

 

[Chaos Avian]

I really do like the way Etrian Odyssey handles statuses. Poison is like one of the single most devastating statuses in the game period, plus it scales with the enemy's/ character's level. Lv1 poison deals lets say 35-40 damage while at Lv10 it caps at 255 damage. As mentioned earlier sleep reduces defense to 0 and when you get hit, it HURTS (the regen while you sleep idea mentioned by Omen613 is done in SMT: Strange Journey).

I'm also surprised that no one has mentioned about statuses being used as a 'power up' for some characters. i.e, inflicting a state on the enemy allows for let's say a Thief to have double the output of power after affliction (Anyone who played Etrian Odyssey 4 and know of the NIghtseeker's Poison Throw + Shadowbite combo will realise importance of statuses).

I do feel that status effects are ignored or not given more thought and are mostly an annoyance to the player while next to useless for players or just gimmicky at best, but if more thought went into it, that thief you kept on neglecting may actually fill a great role for an RPG party

 

[CWells]

I did do something for my vampire characterr When he uses feed, his attack power increases if the bite is successful. So it adds a fuel state basically.

 

[WNxTyr4el]

Just want to comment and say that this thread is awesome and gives really good ideas for new status effects or even current status effects and new twists on their effects on party members. Good post OP

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

maybe guard can be upgraded to have a counter chance...

and some guards that can cause different ailments upon hit (like the Renewal block, Blizzard guard etc abilities from KH: BBS)

I really think guard is a really underpowered status/command...

 

[CWells]

maybe guard can be upgraded to have a counter chance...

and some guards that can cause different ailments upon hit (like the Renewal block, Blizzard guard etc abilities from KH: BBS)

I really think guard is a really underpowered status/command...

I did that too lol. I added a 20% chance of counter on guard.

 

[omen613]

Can make status effects come in the form of combo skills. Ability 1 followed by ability 2 inflicts a status effect as a combo bonus. or a status buff even.

 

[WNxTyr4el]

So I'm working with two ailments I've seen in other games before. But what I didn't realize is that Burn and Poison are essentially the same (HRG -X%) and Frozen and Paralysis are essentially the same (Cannot attack for x amount of turns). Anyone have a way of rectifying this?

EDIT: Run on sentences ftw!

 

[CWells]

So I'm working with two ailments I've seen in other games before. But what I didn't realize is that Burn and Poison are essentially the same (HRG -X%) and Frozen and Paralysis are essentially the same (Cannot attack for x amount of turns). Anyone have a way of rectifying this?

EDIT: Run on sentences ftw!

Given the directness of burning something, just drain HP. You could focus on extra effects with poison. Maybe you can make it so that it adds confusion or slows down opponents. Or makes their physical attacks weaker since they would be too sick to fight at full force?

As far as paralysis and freezing goes, I like to add some small drainage to MP to my freeze states. or to TP. So enemies/characters are slowed to use their unique skills as they have to build the TP again.

 

[Arin]

What I've done for Freeze in the past is made you temporarily vulnerable by decreasing your DEF and MDF to 0, while also taking double damage from Fire Element. I take away the Damage Slip Factor when it comes to Burn, and instead make it so that you can't be healed, and your ATK is reduced to 0. It's kind of a cross between Pokemon's way of handling Burn (without the damage slip) plus Tales of Graces (can't be healed if you're Burned). Paralysis makes you more vulnerable to Water Element for the duration of the effect, because, you have high-voltage electricity running through your body; it's obviously a great idea to drench someone who's being electrocuted.

Simple things like that can up the user experience and make people think "hey, that's a really interesting way to handle Elements".

 

[Probotector 200X]

Well, I think I mentioned this earlier, but trying making Poison a little more intense. Real poison doesn't slowly whittle away your health, and isn't easy to ignore or cure. It...kills you pretty fast. RPGs are bizarre for making it such a basic and weak ailment. You can still make it slip damage / HRG - X% if you want, but try...something like, HRG -50%! You've got 1 or 2 turns to cure it, otherwise, tough!

Burn is often similar to Poison, but I've seen it lower defense. I don't suggest making Burn HRG -50% unless it's like, literally on fire. Burning as opposed to Burn(s).

Frozen in some games is like Sudden Death, meaning 1-hit kills on you, and you can't move! See Final Fantasy IX. Also, fire cures it! Thaw, you know? In Pokémon, Frozen feels like a weaker version of Sleep, it's rarer, and doesn't seem to last as long (poor Ice)...

I've seen Paralyze not wear off in some games, it's brutal. It's essentially the same as being KO'd, in that if your entire party is paralyzed, GAME OVER. (there are scripts for that if I recall correctly, might also be doable with events actually)

 

[Arin]

I'm pretty sure a good Petrify state that could cause 1-hit KOs on attack would be pretty nice, but that just seems like a lot of Common Evening and scripting that I don't have time for. So I try to make do with that I have as far as Database Terms, go, and I've pretty much forgotten what the regular standard entries for States were in VX Ace since I've changed them so much. I would agree that DoTs need more flexibility or more punch than just reducing HP over a certain time.

 

[Probotector 200X]

You could have pseudo-one-hit-kills with simple feature work.

PDR * 1000%

MDR * 1000%

There, now, you take 10x damage from physical or magical attacks! You can have multiple stacks of each on the same state I believe....

You can also make every elemental stronger?? Or, I think you can set it up so at least your normal attack one-hit kills when you hit a "Petrified" target. Like, using "if" type stuff in the damage formula. Fomar0153 posted some cool damage formula stuff: http://cobbtocs.co.uk/wp/?p=271

So, like, you can put it in the damage formula of attack. Check if "b" has "state 30 (petrify)", if true add "state 1 (death)" Or something like that?

And, I could have sworn I'd seen a script that would make that easy...

Well, I'd go with the damage rate spike myself.