What type of work goes into your games? [Commercial and non commercial ]

[ScarletMercenary]

What type of work do you see / use in games? Both types of games. What would be their Around about pricing from x# to y#?  

From what I'm aware these are the types

Spoiler

Static Art:
​

Spoiler

+Maps
+Concepts
+Background
__World
__Area+Character's
__Face
__model 
__Expression
__motion [because these are 9 Static frames] 
+enemies 
__Antagonist
__Monsters
__Bosses 
+Side character's
+Calligraphy
+Menu's 
+Tile set

Kinetic art:
​
+Animations
__Battle
__Story
__Spells
+Movies
__Intro
__Outro
__In between 

Code:
​
+Menu's
+World Interaction
+Character interaction 
+Battle
+Events
+Story 
__Main
__Side
+Controls
+Mini-games
+Quests
+Uniques
__Something that makes the game stand out

Writing:
​
+Story
+Dialog
+Quest
+Personality types
+Background
__World
__Characters
+PUNisher [see what I did there?] 
+Grammatical checking
+Spell checking

Composers:
​
Sound Effects
Voice Overs
__Character
__Sides
__Enemies
__++Bosses
__++antagonists
__++Creatures

BGM
​
__Boss
__Battle
__Shop 
__World
__Area
__Recovery
__Ambience



What other types Would I be missing?
What would you find in commercial and non commercial games?
What Is there usual pricing? 
What Multi-skill do people usually show?
_____[Example all of the character tree and background] OR [Writer and Coding skill]
What are good Launch pricing? 
Best way to keep in contact and working within deadlines / Diligence ?
Best way to distribute said money if your working on a full commercial game together. 
How to save yourself if your Teammate slips in copywriter work? 
What questions do I ask when recruiting teammates?  

I'm in need of these answers and any other questions you all can think of. The more data the better.
Please try to take this as serious as I am. 

 

[Allusion]

Just a quick disclaimer: I'm no veteran game dev, so I'm only going to be able to address the questions I think I can give solid insight on. If I skip some questions, that's why~

What other types Would I be missing?

• Someone to handle UI (user interface) who would be making battle HUD's, and probably any custom scenes that may not use the default window skin.
• Possibly an icon artist as well, if you're looking to go 100% original.  (My apologizes if either of these is listed above--I may have overlooked it.)
• This would be post-game, but it's an important factor--marketing. Paying for ad space, trailer videos, etc...can be costly. Social networking sites are your best friends to help with this, but it's important also to build bonds with actual people--as well as your fanbase, if one is generated by that time. Otherwise, some research into the price of stuff like that should be factored into your budget/fund raising goal.

What would you find in commercial and non commercial games?

This is subjective to the developer/s. Some devs will use RTP and store bought packs exclusively to save time and money. Others will use original everything~ Sometimes it depends on if existing resources are abundant enough to support their game's ideas/settings/people/etc...as well as the custom features they may want.

As for specifics, I've seen custom art work, music, and scripts used more than anything. Icons, animations, and tilesets tend to be compiled mostly from publicly available resources. I have yet to see video be used in an RM game in terms of full blown animation sequence, and voice acting is rare as well. (Though becoming slightly more popular in recent months.)

What Is there usual pricing?

I've seen RM games sold at $10-15 most commonly. Maybe $20, and rarely $25--so I'd put $25 as the max amount to charge for a copy. If you'd like to boost sales in other ways, I've seen developers sell the OST separately as well as DLC (if you're going on Steam), official walkthroughs/guides, and even some or all of the original tilesets used. Still, the price of the base game should always be reasonable!

What Multi-skill do people usually show?

This greatly depends on the individual's talents and availability to do two or three times the work for the project. If you find someone who is a great scripter and artist, for example, (which is what I've seen most often.) they may not have in in them to do both if there is no one else to help pick up the slack. If they do, then great, but be sure to make it clear from the get-go how much will be expected of them.

Also, it's a good idea to check off what you yourself are and are not able to do for the project. This way you can help take some of the work if necessary, while also not having to ask for as much help from others, and by extension, decrease the cost of the overall development. 

Best way to keep in contact and working within deadlines / Diligence ?

Always have multiple means of contact; Skype and e-mail addresses are the typically used. If the team has a forum account here (or anywhere), then mass PM's could work too. There are also websites that allow collaborations between people such as Coggle and Titanpad. Platforms like those allow team members to contribute on their own time, should anyone be late or unable to show up for meetings. (Also keep in mind that this is the Internet--you could very well end up with help from four different people in four different timezones, so full team chats may not always be an option.)

As far as diligence...all I can say is to try and keep up morale. If you crack the whip often, let stress get in the way of how you treat your team, or set difficult to reach goals/expectations, it will burn people out much faster. Also, money is probably the best incentive.

If you can get a good looking demo/concept game built, inspire people to crowdfund it, and pay the workers a little something for their time, it'll help. Games take years to build, even if they're small/simplistic--you're going to be expecting the team to stay together all that time without compensation, which can be demoralizing. 

On the other hand, if you're looking to commission assets directly from different people (which is how most commercial games are made, as teams have a bad reputation of breaking up), then meeting deadlines will be more likely to be done well. (Be warned that some freelancers will charge an inflated fee/rate if you're asking them to do work within a strict amount of time.)

That's about all I can think of~ I hope this helps you out, Scarlet!  :

 

[Kes]

I'm going to answer this from a different angle, because the question "what should go in to a game?" can only honestly be answered with "it all depends".

From your very comprehensive list, I'd say that if this is a commercial game you, as the developer, would need to do most of it.  Why?  Because the more people you commission, the higher your outgoings, and unless you have a very successful Kickstarter or similar (or very deep pockets) you could make a significant loss.  If it is a team and you are developing it jointly, then any income will have to be split multiple ways.  You could easily end up with very small amounts each.

You also need to consider the time factor.  If you just want to make a one-off commercial game, or to do this as a side occupation, then fine, take your take, commission your tile set (months and months before you can even start work), and so on.  If, however, you want to make your living doing this, then you simply cannot afford to spend 2-3 years making each game.  So yes, you will end up using some store bought resources as a base - you might then edit them a lot to make them more your own (this is what I have done), but even with editing that is a lot quicker than waiting for fully original commissioned work.  

EDIT

This shouldn't be taken as meaning that nothing is commissioned.  Some things will, e.g. faces, specialist scripts, things like that.

 

[bgillisp]

I'm in an odd group here, as I'm approaching this as a side project to (maybe) make some income while I'm working elsewhere. So I'm one of those in that group of the game will take 2 - 3 years to make, but can get away with it too as its not meant to be a sole purpose of income.

That being said, for my game I set aside about $5000 to make it (most of it earned by working extra hours or another job over the last year or two). I figure I'll be close to that number when all is said and done, and that is for a game I'm developing solo except for the art and music (which I commissioned). But, if I had to pay a salary for a teammember, well, if the game took 2 - 3 years to make, and considering they need to live on what you pay them, just for my game alone I'd need to pay out:....let's see, $40K * 5 * 3 = $600,000 (40K/year is reasonable in the middle of the US to live on, 5 people counting myself would need that much money paid to them, and its for 3 years. Hence the math). Probably wouldn't work out so well for an RM game, I'm sure I'd take a loss on that.

 

[ScarletMercenary]

Allusion

Spoiler

Just a quick disclaimer: I'm no veteran game dev, so I'm only going to be able to address the questions I think I can give solid insight on. If I skip some questions, that's why~

What other types Would I be missing?

• Someone to handle UI (user interface) who would be making battle HUD's, and probably any custom scenes that may not use the default window skin.
• Possibly an icon artist as well, if you're looking to go 100% original.  (My apologizes if either of these is listed above--I may have overlooked it.)
• This would be post-game, but it's an important factor--marketing. Paying for ad space, trailer videos, etc...can be costly. Social networking sites are your best friends to help with this, but it's important also to build bonds with actual people--as well as your fanbase, if one is generated by that time. Otherwise, some research into the price of stuff like that should be factored into your budget/fund raising goal.

What would you find in commercial and non commercial games?

This is subjective to the developer/s. Some devs will use RTP and store bought packs exclusively to save time and money. Others will use original everything~ Sometimes it depends on if existing resources are abundant enough to support their game's ideas/settings/people/etc...as well as the custom features they may want.

As for specifics, I've seen custom art work, music, and scripts used more than anything. Icons, animations, and tilesets tend to be compiled mostly from publicly available resources. I have yet to see video be used in an RM game in terms of full blown animation sequence, and voice acting is rare as well. (Though becoming slightly more popular in recent months.)

What Is there usual pricing?

I've seen RM games sold at $10-15 most commonly. Maybe $20, and rarely $25--so I'd put $25 as the max amount to charge for a copy. If you'd like to boost sales in other ways, I've seen developers sell the OST separately as well as DLC (if you're going on Steam), official walkthroughs/guides, and even some or all of the original tilesets used. Still, the price of the base game should always be reasonable!

What Multi-skill do people usually show?

This greatly depends on the individual's talents and availability to do two or three times the work for the project. If you find someone who is a great scripter and artist, for example, (which is what I've seen most often.) they may not have in in them to do both if there is no one else to help pick up the slack. If they do, then great, but be sure to make it clear from the get-go how much will be expected of them.

Also, it's a good idea to check off what you yourself are and are not able to do for the project. This way you can help take some of the work if necessary, while also not having to ask for as much help from others, and by extension, decrease the cost of the overall development. 

Best way to keep in contact and working within deadlines / Diligence ?

Always have multiple means of contact; Skype and e-mail addresses are the typically used. If the team has a forum account here (or anywhere), then mass PM's could work too. There are also websites that allow collaborations between people such as Coggle and Titanpad. Platforms like those allow team members to contribute on their own time, should anyone be late or unable to show up for meetings. (Also keep in mind that this is the Internet--you could very well end up with help from four different people in four different timezones, so full team chats may not always be an option.)

As far as diligence...all I can say is to try and keep up morale. If you crack the whip often, let stress get in the way of how you treat your team, or set difficult to reach goals/expectations, it will burn people out much faster. Also, money is probably the best incentive.

If you can get a good looking demo/concept game built, inspire people to crowdfund it, and pay the workers a little something for their time, it'll help. Games take years to build, even if they're small/simplistic--you're going to be expecting the team to stay together all that time without compensation, which can be demoralizing. 

On the other hand, if you're looking to commission assets directly from different people (which is how most commercial games are made, as teams have a bad reputation of breaking up), then meeting deadlines will be more likely to be done well. (Be warned that some freelancers will charge an inflated fee/rate if you're asking them to do work within a strict amount of time.)

That's about all I can think of~ I hope this helps you out, Scarlet!  :

 

I'd like to say thank you! that information is very valuable I'm glad you took the time to answer my question. I'd very much like to find a team to work with and put together games. As for making non-commercial games. I find that every talent deserves pay. While I'd like to work with a team and make games and pay them for their work. The game I produce I would like to earn my cash as well. While  I do have a few games in mind for non-profit I don't feel I can start on them with my grand scaling of idea's I'd like to produce maybe 1-2 games a year. Possibly more! I'm an INFP Which entitles me as an Idealist. While My theories are practically they maybe hard to preform in reality. I'm thankful for the information you've provided me. 

 

[ScarletMercenary]

ksjp17

Spoiler

I'm going to answer this from a different angle, because the question "what should go in to a game?" can only honestly be answered with "it all depends".

From your very comprehensive list, I'd say that if this is a commercial game you, as the developer, would need to do most of it.  Why?  Because the more people you commission, the higher your outgoings, and unless you have a very successful Kickstarter or similar (or very deep pockets) you could make a significant loss.  If it is a team and you are developing it jointly, then any income will have to be split multiple ways.  You could easily end up with very small amounts each.

You also need to consider the time factor.  If you just want to make a one-off commercial game, or to do this as a side occupation, then fine, take your take, commission your tile set (months and months before you can even start work), and so on.  If, however, you want to make your living doing this, then you simply cannot afford to spend 2-3 years making each game.  So yes, you will end up using some store bought resources as a base - you might then edit them a lot to make them more your own (this is what I have done), but even with editing that is a lot quicker than waiting for fully original commissioned work.  

EDIT

This shouldn't be taken as meaning that nothing is commissioned.  Some things will, e.g. faces, specialist scripts, things like that.

I do agree with you but I'm looking for more Detailed information on maybe past experiences you've seen with games. For example if you've seen any successful steam games or bigfish games with RPG maker What were their defined qualities? Why were they successful? I've played a few of them and Find that most of them have a high level of annoyance or flaw that Drives me to not play them. While I know what can possibly Go into games. I don't fully know what makes them successful rather what makes them NOT successful. 

 

[ScarletMercenary]

Spoiler

I'm in an odd group here, as I'm approaching this as a side project to (maybe) make some income while I'm working elsewhere. So I'm one of those in that group of the game will take 2 - 3 years to make, but can get away with it too as its not meant to be a sole purpose of income.

That being said, for my game I set aside about $5000 to make it (most of it earned by working extra hours or another job over the last year or two). I figure I'll be close to that number when all is said and done, and that is for a game I'm developing solo except for the art and music (which I commissioned). But, if I had to pay a salary for a teammember, well, if the game took 2 - 3 years to make, and considering they need to live on what you pay them, just for my game alone I'd need to pay out:....let's see, $40K * 5 * 3 = $600,000 (40K/year is reasonable in the middle of the US to live on, 5 people counting myself would need that much money paid to them, and its for 3 years. Hence the math). Probably wouldn't work out so well for an RM game, I'm sure I'd take a loss on that.

While I agree with your numbers. I don't find any of us to be big times yet. If we had that money to throw out. I'd consider that our profits would be close to millennial RPG maker games on steam. While They have about 10-12 game titles all books of their own. Commissions are they key word here.  not many people want to sit down and work on 1 game alone. maybe because there's allot of WAIT time. Can't progress in mapping because story isn't done. Can't progress in coding because map's arn't done. Can't progress in composing because story and maps arn't done. A game must be stacked on each other yes. but they also need work in harmony to where the map matches to story. and the code matches the story and the maps. 

A poor example of this would be FF7 having Aeris die. your code tells you phoenix downs revive death. Yet you can't revive aeris. code =/= story. Their is disconnection.  Harmony remember that. 

 

[Sharm]

ScarletMercenary, please avoid double posting, as it is against the forum rules. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.

 

[Kes]

Clearly I'm biased because both of my games have been commercial successes.  One is on Steam already and the other will be going on Steam at the right moment.  But note - no game is ever going to please everyone.  It's not possible.  so while many people will enjoy a particular game I can guarantee you that there will be others who - for quite legitimate reasons - did not enjoy it because it included/did not include specific features.

The things which have been specifically commented on positively by more than one player of my games.

• The quality of the writing.  Story and character development are, imo, crucial to most genres of an rpg game.  Even where story is less important, it needs to be well written, coherent, well paced, interesting and thoroughly proof read.
• Maps which not only look good but are also functional in their design.  Lots of pretty maps are dreadful to negotiate, lots of ugly maps are around.
• Battles that are properly balanced.
• Well chosen music.
• Some degree of customisation of the characters.  Tale of a Common Man had a lot more than Undefeated.
• Difficulty modes so that people can pick the one that suits them best.
• Choice of visible or invisible enemies for the same reason.
• Choice of mouse or keyboard for the same reason.
• Sidequests
• Secret areas to find

As you can see, all straightforward stuff.  It's not so much the ingredients, it is how well they are executed.  You can have loads of incredibly good ideas, interesting mechanics and so on, but if they are not executed well, you might just as well not have bothered.

What doesn't show up on a laundry list approach like the above is something that I think is hugely important, and that is attention to detail.  There are lots of things in life that are fine as long as they are more or less okay, but with game making it is the details which make all the difference, which mark out one game as polished and another as rough.