What would a "lancer" class do?

the___blade

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That ISN'T a ripoff of Final Fantasy's dragoon jump ability. I'm trying to come up with classes for my game and I've hit a bit of a roadblock with this one.
 

Finnuval

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Well depends a bit on the type of game and battle system but the first things that some to mind are :

Higher damage based on movement
Charge ability
Anti cavalry/beasts
High impact against armor classes
 

NoPiessadface

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for me i think lancers are crit and atk spd focused class that can attack both ranged and melee with armor reduction skills
 

ATT_Turan

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What would a "lancer" class do? That ISN'T a ripoff of Final Fantasy's dragoon jump ability.
Well, to be fair...why would a lancer jump? It's not like there's any historical/real precedence for it...they're lances, not pogo sticks. :guffaw:

Finnuval's suggestions more accurately reflect the role that lances played, and I would add to that defense. Being shaft-mounted, they have a greater ability to parry incoming blows, as well as attack from a distance outside other melee weapons - so, in game terms, better defense.
 

SGHarlekin

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I'd first differentiate between a lance, a pike, a javelin, a spear, and a lance. Of course they are all the same as they are essentially pointy sticks. But most commonly are differentiated like this these days:

After that, it really depends on the combat system you're creating. It could be more defensive, like @ATT_Turan suggests, with a row formation, they could be used from further back, despite being a melee weapon perhaps. With a rock, paper, scissors system, they might be strong against shorter weapons like swords. Generally, they may be more effective against armored enemies with their piercing nature. They could have skills that defend while also dealing damage combined with a shield when attacked. They could be more effective against mounted enemies if you want to be extra fancy.

There's a myriad of possibilities, depending on what system you are using.
 

cthmpsn91

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That ISN'T a ripoff of Final Fantasy's dragoon jump ability. I'm trying to come up with classes for my game and I've hit a bit of a roadblock with this one.

Assuming traditional jrpg turn-based style gameplay and traditional fantasy classes, for me Lancer would be one part of the equation as a whole.

Assuming they were the only ones that could use the Spear/etc. weapon type, then if that weapon type provides a stat boost that others don't - say, providing offensive stats and a defensive because of its length/defensive use relative to reality.

Skill-wise, I suppose that would depend on what kind of role you are wanting them to fill. Skills that provide damage against specific enemies, like the Piercing attribute @HarlekinLehl mentioned would be good if you utilized 'Armored' enemies; or a few skills that maybe ignore defense completely as another form of 'piercing'.
 

KawaiiKid

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That ISN'T a ripoff of Final Fantasy's dragoon jump ability. I'm trying to come up with classes for my game and I've hit a bit of a roadblock with this one.
I think it's come to the point to realize that maybe you are having the forum make your classes. From a thread asking how to make your lancer, one for your scholar, one for your hunter/ranger to a whole thread asking about 5 other classes you plan on making, and lifting a mercenary class from another thread. I'd consider sitting back and just having a hot shower and think how those classes should feel, instead of asking others. It's going to come to the point where it's going to be the forums' game, not yours. If you are really interested in making a game, you need to be interested in how you want to design your classes.

One of your old posts asking how long it takes to make a game though leads me to believe that you are a new designer. In that case, with the kinds of questions you are constantly asking, is it a game you want to build, or are you doing it for some other reason? Having other people make your classes, asking how fast you can make the game. Also asking what parts of the story to make first just leads me to believe it might not even be something you want to do?

In addition to this, "releasing a game in episodes" thread you posted is one of the core things that both new writers, and new game designers do. They want to release their books in short chapters instead of writing the whole book and releasing it at once, or they want to release chapters of their game instead of finishing it all at once. Don't be discouraged, this is something literally everyone in a creative field first thinks when they start projects while they are novices. It's because it takes a very long time to finish books or games etc, and you get no satisfaction in the meantime. It could be years before you release something, and you never get a dopamine hit until it's done. A way to combat this is to post snippets of your game as screenshots or gifs etc to forums.

Sorry to seem like I'm coming at you, I just see your posts multiple times a day and see that you may be going down a bad road. Asking questions is fine, but having others design too much of your game for you should really make you question why you're doing it in the first place. You say you want a lancer for example, but why? Is it because you don't want it to be called a dragoon but want to have final fantasy classes? Or is there a specific reason you want lancer? All your other classes listed in previous threads are direct parallels to final fantasy classes with different names (sometimes just using the japanese name, like knight for paladin). If you're taking homage from Final Fantasy, just own up to it. There's no shame, but beating around the bush is just odd.

Again, not trying to come at you, but with all your lines of questions, it makes me believe that you just want the end product of the game, not the design part at all. And if that's the case, why not just take what's already out there?
 

SGHarlekin

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I think it's come to the point to realize that maybe you are having the forum make your classes. From a thread asking how to make your lancer, one for your scholar, one for your hunter/ranger to a whole thread asking about 5 other classes you plan on making, and lifting a mercenary class from another thread. I'd consider sitting back and just having a hot shower and think how those classes should feel, instead of asking others. It's going to come to the point where it's going to be the forums' game, not yours. If you are really interested in making a game, you need to be interested in how you want to design your classes.

One of your old posts asking how long it takes to make a game though leads me to believe that you are a new designer. In that case, with the kinds of questions you are constantly asking, is it a game you want to build, or are you doing it for some other reason? Having other people make your classes, asking how fast you can make the game. Also asking what parts of the story to make first just leads me to believe it might not even be something you want to do?

In addition to this, "releasing a game in episodes" thread you posted is one of the core things that both new writers, and new game designers do. They want to release their books in short chapters instead of writing the whole book and releasing it at once, or they want to release chapters of their game instead of finishing it all at once. Don't be discouraged, this is something literally everyone in a creative field first thinks when they start projects while they are novices. It's because it takes a very long time to finish books or games etc, and you get no satisfaction in the meantime. It could be years before you release something, and you never get a dopamine hit until it's done. A way to combat this is to post snippets of your game as screenshots or gifs etc to forums.

Sorry to seem like I'm coming at you, I just see your posts multiple times a day and see that you may be going down a bad road. Asking questions is fine, but having others design too much of your game for you should really make you question why you're doing it in the first place. You say you want a lancer for example, but why? Is it because you don't want it to be called a dragoon but want to have final fantasy classes? Or is there a specific reason you want lancer? All your other classes listed in previous threads are direct parallels to final fantasy classes with different names (sometimes just using the japanese name, like knight for paladin). If you're taking homage from Final Fantasy, just own up to it. There's no shame, but beating around the bush is just odd.

Again, not trying to come at you, but with all your lines of questions, it makes me believe that you just want the end product of the game, not the design part at all. And if that's the case, why not just take what's already out there?
To be honest, this is gold imho.
 

Willibab

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My plan is to have each class have a specific thing they are good at, while being bad at other things. So part of the gameplay is having the player gather a party where they make up for each others flaws as much as possible. I'm a big fan of synergy.

My classes are all very simple, usually only having 1 ability and 1 bonus to differentiate from each other, this is due to having a materia system on top of them :p

My Lancer class is a tank one, which have higher threat (target rate) then most classes, it has the Phalanx ability which grants max counter chance (I'd also want it to do 2x counter damage but not gotten to that class yet.). Essentially luring enemies into a trap. This synergized well with the high threat as its more likely to be attacked at any time. Another synergy would be a class that can buff others with more threat, making all the enemies impale themselves on your tank :p

It also has higher accuracy which is usually a ranged only bonus. (Simulating the reach of a spear in a sense.) This makes it good against evasive enemies. Where as the other melee fighters would just miss them and then be attacked without being able to counter.

Some wind spells are like this, so I'm essentially making it so wind spells are suited for this class without outright telling the player :p

You can also use ideas from other games, just have your own spin on it.

I have Jump, but I call it Soar (Might change the name) and it does wind damage. It has low accuracy but is guaranteed to crit if it hits. So its essentially a mix between FF7's deathblow and Jump.

In most cases its a gamble move and any class can learn it (materia), but if you have a class with high accuracy + a weapon with high accuracy then the chance of it hitting is very high. So its not a Lancer skill, but its well suited for it. Ofc, you can also get around it by any +accuracy buffs :p
 

IschmarVI

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Okay, let me think about what I would associate a lance. (I am assuming a somewhat "normal sized" spear that is like maybe about as high as an average male soldier because something like a pike may be very useful in certain situations but is generally not that good of an "all-roundish" weapon)


- a lot of stabbing, poking and thrusting because well ... that's what you do with a lance :D

- being effective against armor / armored opponents and against enemies where having high thrusting power at some range is useful (cavalry, certain flying units while they are close to the ground, etc.)

- range. A lance is longer than most other melee weapons. Depending on the combat system that the game uses, this could be an important factor (maybe giving them 2 instead of 1 range in an SRPG/TRPG type of game. That extra range could also bring defensive advantages against other melee units, which could be reflected in the unit/class stats for a more standard (r)rpg.

- generally a lot of single-target focus. Because while yes, you CAN theoretically swing a lance around but it is usually not good things that happen from this. So high single-target damage but somewhat limited area-of-effect options would probably be fitting. Also, the focus will be mostly on direct damage and less on damage-over-time because stabbing someone with a pointy thing doesn't create a very wide, wound that I would normally associate with damage-over time. But it creates quite some impact so direct damage would undoubtedly be pretty high.

- combinations / attack sequences: I mean, this is not exclusive to a lance, but lances are one of the weapons that allow you to throw out a series of several attacks in a row. This could also be part of a class design

- oh, and depending on the type of lance/spear/whatever, you can also potentially throw them. But this is something you should only do if you have spare weapons at hand or one of those infinit ammo cheat codes you often find in video games.


Oh and about that jumping thing .... while definitely very stylish, jump attacks have pretty much never been a thing in (european/japanese) historical weapon fighting, barring a few selected exceptions (but in those the jumping actually makes sense). And there is good reason for this. 1. it is slow 2. When you jump, you fully commit to the attack giving the opponent the opportunity to capitalize on that 3. it is not as strong as video games and movies want to make you believe. So no ... jump abilities are not something I would recommend.
 

the___blade

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I think it's come to the point to realize that maybe you are having the forum make your classes. From a thread asking how to make your lancer, one for your scholar, one for your hunter/ranger to a whole thread asking about 5 other classes you plan on making, and lifting a mercenary class from another thread. I'd consider sitting back and just having a hot shower and think how those classes should feel, instead of asking others. It's going to come to the point where it's going to be the forums' game, not yours. If you are really interested in making a game, you need to be interested in how you want to design your classes.

One of your old posts asking how long it takes to make a game though leads me to believe that you are a new designer. In that case, with the kinds of questions you are constantly asking, is it a game you want to build, or are you doing it for some other reason? Having other people make your classes, asking how fast you can make the game. Also asking what parts of the story to make first just leads me to believe it might not even be something you want to do?

In addition to this, "releasing a game in episodes" thread you posted is one of the core things that both new writers, and new game designers do. They want to release their books in short chapters instead of writing the whole book and releasing it at once, or they want to release chapters of their game instead of finishing it all at once. Don't be discouraged, this is something literally everyone in a creative field first thinks when they start projects while they are novices. It's because it takes a very long time to finish books or games etc, and you get no satisfaction in the meantime. It could be years before you release something, and you never get a dopamine hit until it's done. A way to combat this is to post snippets of your game as screenshots or gifs etc to forums.

Sorry to seem like I'm coming at you, I just see your posts multiple times a day and see that you may be going down a bad road. Asking questions is fine, but having others design too much of your game for you should really make you question why you're doing it in the first place. You say you want a lancer for example, but why? Is it because you don't want it to be called a dragoon but want to have final fantasy classes? Or is there a specific reason you want lancer? All your other classes listed in previous threads are direct parallels to final fantasy classes with different names (sometimes just using the japanese name, like knight for paladin). If you're taking homage from Final Fantasy, just own up to it. There's no shame, but beating around the bush is just odd.

Again, not trying to come at you, but with all your lines of questions, it makes me believe that you just want the end product of the game, not the design part at all. And if that's the case, why not just take what's already out there?
You are right. Thank you for those hard words, I needed to hear them.
 

thenerdmansion

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I went through the same issue. I was at a roadblock for lance skills and then I decided, well, a spear and a lance are both just a pointy stick. They are the same weapon. So I decided that for my game, that class would be called hunter and the skills would all be something like thrust “cuz hunters will thrust their spear at wild animals” it happens, and intimidation ect. I did add a single jump skill because I’m a fan. Who isn’t? Lol.
 

AeroPergold

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I think a Lancer should have good Attack and Speed stats with average, even below average defense stats.

It should also have skills requiring the Spear weapon to be equipped, for example a skill that would target a single enemy multiple times and having that skill have a fast speed so it happens first. Also a skill that would increase critical hit rate a la Pokemon's Focus Energy wouldn't hurt.

So the Stats should look something like this:

Attack: ++
Defense: +
M. Attack: --
M. Defense +
Agility: +++
Luck: ++

Forgive me if I used the rating system from Game Dev Tycoon. Hope this helps.
 

ATT_Turan

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I did add a single jump skill because I’m a fan. Who isn’t?
Me...I always thought that was the stupidest thing Final Fantasy made up :guffaw:

Luckily, you do not need my approval to make your game the way you like :wink:
 

thenerdmansion

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Me...I always thought that was the stupidest thing Final Fantasy made up :guffaw:

Luckily, you do not need my approval to make your game the way you like :wink:
All of my characters have a unique skill and lancer/hunter, well, there just isn’t anything special that I could came up with so I thought a skill that would avoid damage for 1 turn “jump” would have to do for the unique skill. As I think about it though. I could just rename the skill to hide, as in “hide in the bushes like a predator, like a hunter”

Some critique has never been bad and I wasn’t going to change my skill just because of you but I thought about it and I came up with exactly what I needed for that unique skill thanks to you.

Thank you .
 

M.I.A.

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Some enemies in my main project had an auto-barrier of "Shell". These are usually armored foes or foes with literal shells/hard surfaces. In order to begin damaging the foe, first the Shell must be broken. It's basically an absorption barrier. However, Lancer's and Archers (or any weapon/skill that flags "Piercing" damage) can bypass the Shell and damage the foe directly.

Also, I work the lancer class into the lore. Lancers are dragon slayers that can learn the skills of the types of dragons they defeat. Defeated a fire breathing dragon? Learned Fire Breath. Defeated a dimensional dragon? Learned Haste. Defeated a cockatrice? Learned Berzerk. So kinda like a Blue Mage, one could say.

They also have a selection of self buffs, as a mostly physical class.
Hope this helps!
-MIA
 

Kes

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Do you really want to call this class 'lancer'?

I ask because a lancer is by definition a cavalry soldier. Unless you intend to have your lancer as a mounted character in the party, with everyone else plodding along on foot, I'd call this character a spearsman or a pikeman or similar.

I know that many games have a 'lancer' in them. That, for me, is the labelling equivalent of all those people who, instead of having a rogue, have a rouge.
 

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