What you think about Order society vs. Chao society in RPG Games?

Basileus

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A lot of this is going to be subjective, so the most important thing is going to be what kind of story you are telling and who the target demographic is.

> Are heroes have to take justice on their hands or the people in authority help them punishment the villains in your games?

This seems to be assuming that the heroes in the game aren't authority figures and don't have ties to authority figures. Off the top of my head, I recall that Tales of the Abyss had some high-ranking military officers in the party so they had real authority to punish some of the villains they fought. Tales of Vesperia went in the other direction and had the party need to deal with the fact that the authorities couldn't properly deal with some of the villains in the game. If the heroes take justice into their own hands, then make sure to follow though on this idea. Nothing is worse than getting the player's expectations up like this only to have the party act like normal heroes and have no issues with authority figures later in the game.

> Isn't true that people who survive rather than people who sacrifice actually get honor and virtue in your RPG writing? How your games outlook of heroism?

Do you mean something like, does a hero need to die in the end? There is no rule that characters need to sacrifice their life in order to be heroic, but it usually helps if the hero needs to sacrifice something. If the hero just "does the right thing" and never has to lose/give up anything then it is easy to doubt how true the hero's convictions are. If the hero has a chance to have something he really wants, but needs to give it up to help others, then it shows that the hero is sincere in his beliefs.

> In many RPG games, I see usually many antagonists die. Should the antagonist always have to die?

Antagonists do not always have to die. It depends on the story you want to tell and who your main party are as people. If you want a simple good vs. evil story with a Demon King out to destroy the world...then yeah, it's going to be hard to let the antagonist live. If you want a morally grey story where the antagonist is misguided but not evil, then you make let them live just by having them realize they were wrong and give up their plans.

> Should villains be put in jail or you think they should be finished off?

This is the same thing. If the villain insists on fighting to the death, then fight to the death. If the villain can be reasoned with, then maybe try that instead.

> Can heroes become crazy by an extreme sense of justice?

I mean, yes it's possible to be obsessed with "justice" and go off the deep end. I wouldn't recommend writing that into the story unless you want to make something really dark though. It doesn't work well unless the hero really goes nuts and does something horrible, so it's not going to work well in an idealistic story.

> Should heroes have immunity for violating basic universal moral like killing or stealing in a game without consequences or retribution? [consequentialism game vs escapism game]

This will depend heavily on the kind of story you are telling and the audience you are telling it to. The protagonists getting away with killing and stealing without consequence will appeal to certain audiences that want a violent escapist fantasy. However, the lack of consequences will make it very difficult to sell to a more mature audience (as in actual adults, not "mature" in the sense of having blood and violence) and it will be pretty much impossible to sell to a younger audience. Immunity to basic consequences will generally not appeal to people looking for good writing either. Don't do this unless you really want to target that "edgy" demographic.

> Are you prefer stability predictability [often forshadowing] or you prefer uncertainty surprise [thing could 50/50 possibility and random accident that no one expect]?

This one is more a question of good writing. Having things happen suddenly or randomly without foreshadowing is bad writing. Even if it is a major plot twist, there needs to be something there to show the writer didn't just get bored and pull something out of their bum. Contrived coincidences are very bad writing and using them repeatedly can turn many people off the story completely. Unless you are making some kind of absurdist comedy, then pulling random surprises should be avoided.

> What is your preferred dark story or light story?

I prefer stories that are well-told. Light and dark are both good when the writing is good. But each type has a different appeal. Sometimes I want a light-hearted good vs. evil story where good always triumphs, and sometimes I want a dark story of vengeance, betrayal, morally ambiguity where the heroes aren't always right.
 

cthulhusquid

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8. What is your preferred dark story or light story?
I tend to lean towards dark stories, and most of my favorites authors are in that area. H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Phillip K Dick, William Gibson, and various ones who contribute to Warhammer 40k literature. I like light stories as well, but if they are anything but comedies I tend to find them trite, unrealistic, and lacking weight.
 

Kupotepo

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@Basileus, thank you for responding.

This seems to be assuming that the heroes in the game aren't authority figures and don't have ties to authority figures. Off the top of my head, I recall that Tales of the Abyss had some high-ranking military officers in the party so they had real authority to punish some of the villains they fought.
Haaaaa, are you try to trick me into a perjury trap? You are correct that the heroes would be in a position of power. I cannot read your mind, because I will write the respond for you.

How about your game's situation of your heroes? Thank you.


If the heroes take justice into their own hands, then make sure to follow though on this idea. Nothing is worse than getting the player's expectations up like this only to have the party act like normal heroes and have no issues with authority figures later in the game.
I think you are assuming that players expect that to happen. You do not see me as a player if a game has a too-long conversation. I just skip the messages because I would like to play instead of understanding at that moment.:kaoluv: I am sorry for the writers who work really hard to create those lines.

Do you mean something like, does a hero need to die in the end? There is no rule that characters need to sacrifice their life in order to be heroic, but it usually helps if the hero needs to sacrifice something.
I agree with you that heroes don't need to do anything.

If the hero just "does the right thing" and never has to lose/give up anything then it is easy to doubt how true the hero's convictions are. If the hero has a chance to have something he really wants, but needs to give it up to help others, then it shows that the hero is sincere in his beliefs.
"National and influential " heroes can claim to give up a lot of things.:kaojoy: I understand what you mean about true heroes. But true heroes are really humble.

If you want a simple good vs. evil story with a Demon King out to destroy the world...then yeah, it's going to be hard to let the antagonist live. If you want a morally grey story where the antagonist is misguided but not evil, then you make let them live just by having them realize they were wrong and give up their plans.
I prefer a morally grey story if I want critical thinking, but sometimes I prefer good vs. evil games for the sake of brainless playing. When you said misguided? Do you mean that antagonist is morally misguided, correct? Do you consider a survivalist antagonist evil? I mean he/she knows it wrong, but she/he has to do the bad things to survive in that society like any of us in the real world.

This is the same thing. If the villain insists on fighting to the death, then fight to the death. If the villain can be reasoned with, then maybe try that instead.
If you assume the villain is suicidal, then I agree with you that they insist on fighting to the death.
Also if you assume that villain doesn't have a high functioning brain, then I agree with you. You can reason with a high functioning brain villain and latter he/she will lead to your protagonist demise. Sure you can a murder, a deceiver, and a trickster.:kaojoy: Sorry for my dark humor if you find offensive.

I mean, yes it's possible to be obsessed with "justice" and go off the deep end. I wouldn't recommend writing that into the story unless you want to make something really dark though. It doesn't work well unless the hero really goes nuts and does something horrible, so it's not going to work well in an idealistic story.
I agree with your guidance. Thanks. Many people have warned me not to let the player controls the crazy heroes. It leaves a bad taste in a player's mouth. I can create the character, but do not let the player control, and the player have to fight the crazy hero. Do you agree with that right?

Even if it is a major plot twist, there needs to be something there to show the writer didn't just get bored and pull something out of their bum. Contrived coincidences are very bad writing and using them repeatedly can turn many people off the story completely. Unless you are making some kind of absurdist comedy, then pulling random surprises should be avoided.
Thank you for your helpful tips.

I prefer stories that are well-told. Light and dark are both good when the writing is good. But each type has a different appeal. Sometimes I want a light-hearted good vs. evil story where good always triumphs, and sometimes I want a dark story of vengeance, betrayal, morally ambiguity where the heroes aren't always right.
Prefer doesn't mean you have an absolute commitment to the choice you make. Let me try a different way. Are you usually stress or happy?
 
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Basileus

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@Kupotepo

When I said "If the heroes take justice into their own hands, then make sure to follow though on this idea " I was thinking of a specific game and wanted to avoid spoilers. Basically, the main character controlled by the player realized there were villains that the law could not punish and decided to kill one of them in cold blood rather than see them get away. It was a big moment...and then the game didn't really do anything with it. No look at how being a vigilante is bad, no consequences for committing murder, no look at how blindly following justice can make someone a monster as bad as the villains. Just sort of got dropped and was very disappointing.

By "misguided antagonist" I meant someone that the heroes need to stop that isn't actually evil. The antagonist doesn't realize they are hurting people, so it is possible for the heroes to talk the antagonist into stopping and don't need to kill them.

Not sure on the last one. I'm not really stressed. It's fun to read darker stories or lighter stories as long as the plot is interesting. But I don't like to read dark stories that are immature. I don't want to read a book/play a game where the protagonist does bad things and there are no consequences for it.
 

Kupotepo

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@Basileus, ok. I understand what you mean now. I will respect your decision and good luck with your game making. Thank you for not spoiling the games.

No look at how being a vigilante is bad, no consequences for committing murder, no look at how blindly following justice can make someone a monster as bad as the villains. Just sort of got dropped and was very disappointing.
Sorry to hear that you didn't have a good experience with that particular game.

By "misguided antagonist" I meant someone that the heroes need to stop that isn't actually evil. The antagonist doesn't realize they are hurting people, so it is possible for the heroes to talk the antagonist into stopping and don't need to kill them.
Thank you for your explanation.

Not sure on the last one. I'm not really stressed. It's fun to read darker stories or lighter stories as long as the plot is interesting. But I don't like to read dark stories that are immature. I don't want to read a book/play a game where the protagonist does bad things and there are no consequences for it.
:kaopride:Sorry for being unclear. I mean what is your general mood if you wish to disclose it. If not, it is alright. I know what you are talking about. The shooting games have unclear plots sometimes, some people like the actions and thrillers. People prefer a different cup of tea, I guess.:kaothx:
 
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Kupotepo

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