What's your idea of what the Katana/Blade-wielder archetype behaves like in battle?

Chainer07

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Dont need to stay true to samurai tho. the OP did say Archetype.


a very typical example of a certain person or thing.
"the book is a perfect archetype of the genre"
  • an original that has been imitated.
    "the archetype of faith is Abraham"
  • a recurrent symbol or motif in literature, art, or mythology.
    "mythological archetypes of good and evil"
That being said as long as it follows certain key points the lore don't mean nothing. im not trying to be the bad guy here, if you follow all the rules for a samurai your going to have it fall flat. this is where the fantasy part of a fantasy game kicks in. with that being said.

So far as i understand it. Warrior class with Agility attributes. Focused on high combos. Low end stats are magic and has a higher resistance to Status. the class is basically a glass cannon and needs healing so either have a vampiric weapon or a healer on the party to protect him.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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@CrowStorm I've been kicking around the idea of the samurai/katana guy having that instant ability like you are talking about. It makes sense that a highly trained warrior dude, supposedly fast and disciplined, would be able to have some fancy sword moves. I was thinking of representing that as the character having an instant cast skill that deals DMG and breaks charge (bc I'm using ATB) but also has a cooldown effect so you can't break the game and cancel all the enemies attacks every turn :LZSbleh:

It seems like most people are leaning toward the katana guy (at least in terms of a samurai character) to being a pretty straightforward 'not-so-squishy glass-cannon.'

However, does your idea of the katana/sword-wielder change if you drop the katana? What if we're talking about a fencer, pirate, or some other archetype that fits into the 'one-handed sword user category'? Personally, I'm thinking that the shoe still fits. Maybe some slight changes in a few skills would be necessary for character construction, however, I think any one-hand sword user fits into the 'more meaty glass-cannon' role.
 

Milennin

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Samurai-type class is something I've always wanted to do at some point, but never gotten around to it yet at least. My current project's combat system revolves a lot around skill set tokens that are generated and spent by using skills. The Samurai's tokens could be like cuts inflicted to the enemy through hits, increasing the effectiveness of his skills the more times the enemy has been hit by him. I could see him starting out fairly weak in the first few turns, but his damage potential ramps up quite significantly the more turns pass. So, not that great against trash encounters, but very effective vs. bosses. Also, he'd be more single-target focused, so he'd really needs additional firepower coming from other party members when fighting against larger groups.

Oh, and for when I play other games. I expect the Samurai to be a fairly balanced, offensive fighter. Not quite the glasscannon like an Assassin would be, but not sturdy like a Knight either.
 
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Chainer07

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So now that the Lore perspective has been dropped. We now focus on the philosophy points and that's fair. Samurai,sword dancer,pirate,fencer. What makes each of them unique in their own right? Simple answer is abilities.
 

RachelTheSeeker

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I do agree with Chainer. Stats are only one aspect of a class. Their fluff, equipment and especially abilities make them stand out more, in my opinion. The basic stat array for a samurai-esque katana-user could easily be translated to a rapier-wielding duelist or, as suggested in my initial post here, a martial artist wielding a claw or gauntlet.

Fleshing out the fact that they use a katana and Japanese armor can make them a samurai; a rapier and light armor and/or a buckler or parrying dagger can turn them to a duelist, etc.
 

kairi_key

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When I thought of samurai, I always thought of a class that need setups. Weaker attack in general but can deal humongous damage when in the right states/buffs. I also thought of evasive tank type of character where you need to set up some evasive aura up and silently wait for enemies to attack, and then parry & counter that with a heavy hit.

Tho I have this one fantasy for a katana-wielder class, in which they are basically mage-killer. Their skill are effective against mage type character. Like, they can use their ki to slice through magic and stuffs.I know it's weird, but imagining a katana cut through a magic energy ball is so cool, lol.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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@kairi_key I like your idea of the samurai being a tank that relies on evasion rather than soaking up DMG. I think that's an interesting take on the tank role that doesn't get used very often. Maybe because it's a little too OP if not balanced correctly :p
 

kairi_key

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@kairi_key I like your idea of the samurai being a tank that relies on evasion rather than soaking up DMG. I think that's an interesting take on the tank role that doesn't get used very often. Maybe because it's a little too OP if not balanced correctly :p
Yes, it's harder to balance. One way I can think of is having lateral damage in which you can get chip damage from evading a sonic boom type of attack. It's basically turn EVA value into somewhat a DEF instead while if the EVA rate is high enough, it'll be a perfect dodge. Another way I think of is to play with stances and auras. Before you can set up the evasion phase, your samurai would be very vulnerable to attack, so you'll have to time your stance well (I imagine something like sheathed and unsheathed sword stance would sounds pretty cool).

Also, to give loves to some other katana-user, I think one ninja is unique is from their ninja scroll. They could either be alchemist-like that use a consumable scroll item to use their certain abilities, or simply making their spells utility-based.
I also think of ff14's ninja where they use hand-signs to combo up a skill, like hand sign A into B would result in different spell than B to A. One way that could be replicated in a turn-based game is probably turn these hand signs into some useful abilities that also generate hand-signed states. If you can use ability A, B and C consecutively, then after ability C is used, a special ability of that ABC combo will automatically activated. It'd turn ninja into great dps in a boss fight if players can combo up ninja's different hand-signs together uninterrupted.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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Yes, it's harder to balance. One way I can think of is having lateral damage in which you can get chip damage from evading a sonic boom type of attack. It's basically turn EVA value into somewhat a DEF instead while if the EVA rate is high enough, it'll be a perfect dodge. Another way I think of is to play with stances and auras. Before you can set up the evasion phase, your samurai would be very vulnerable to attack, so you'll have to time your stance well (I imagine something like sheathed and unsheathed sword stance would sounds pretty cool).
Even before this thread, I've looked at a Samurai character as one that utilizes stances, so I totally agree with your idea of needing to play with the state/aura of the samurai.

I've thought about 3 stances: high DMG stance that focuses on DMG dealing skills, the balanced stance that focuses on utility skills, and the high DEF/EVA stance that focuses on evading techniques and using increasing counterattack rate. One thing I did not think about was using the sam's DEF/EVA stance as a damage mitigation tool though. I purely thought of it as a way to deal different kinds of DMG. Now you've got me thinking about using the sam's evasion, while in that stance, to add a chance to evade into the enemy attack formulas. Maybe setting the formula up so that if b has stateX, then the formula would essentially roll a d3 and have a 1/3 chance of doing that chip DMG (by adding the AGI to b's DEF value), and maybe even giving a chance to miss the attack altogether. And I think for balance, it would allow a 1/3 for the attack to hit harder than usual.
 

Chocopyro

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What @HumanNinjaToo said. Let's step away from samurai for a bit, and broaden the idea to include the more universal idea of a typical swordsman type who hyper specializes in using realistically proportioned bstrd-swords, katanas, dueling blades (either in einhander or duel wielding fashion), for a bit. There is a way to handle such characters while having them be less straight damage types.

I play just such a character in Larp, (Although more westernized, preferring longswords and bstrd swords, occasionally equipping a shortsword in the offhand as the need arrises) and have played many of these types in D&D and Pathfinder. Now the thing a lot of people tend not to know about swordsmanship without the use of a shield is, you typically have to compensate for the inherent lack of defensibility. So you're going into a fight with defense in mind more than offense. (And yeah, the two aren't inherently exclusive, they feed into each other a lot.)

So here are a few tactics that go through my head at larp in the middle of a fight.
You're going to want to overcome your gap in defense with a balance of mobility and technique. Footwork becomes all the more important, as the need to step back from vicious strikes, or throw a repost/counter attack becomes largely more necessary. Throw every dirty trick you can at them, from disarming, to feinting attacks. Rapidly throw a flourish, not so much to catch your opponent in an attack, but to put a wall between you and them. Bounce to their side, then bounce back as they turn to overwhelm your opponent's focus. Bait your opponent into attacking a perceived weak point in your defense, only to lure them into over extending or limit their ability to recover from an attack. And above all else: NEVER SPIN! No matter how flashy it looks.

Translating that into RPG mechanics, here are a few ideas.
-Bonus to evasion
-Bonus to counter attack
-Skill that negates an enemy's next attack.
-Skill that disarms an opponent's weapons or shield.
-Skill that reverses all damage AND any states attached to the attack directly back at the attacker.
-Skill that adds a bleeding DOT effect or higher crit chance, taking advantage of a character's knowledge of anatomy.
-Skill that has a chance of confusing an opponent with elaborate footwork, while simultaneously buffing evasion.
-Skill that knocks an enemy prone, and/or drops their ability to evade the next attack.

Just a different way to look at the subject, I suppose.
 
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HumanNinjaToo

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I like your skill ideas. It makes sense to me that a good swordsman would have some kind of combo system, kinda like you mention with your Larp. Use some skills to feint, confuse the enemy; all of these moves building up a damage multiplier if you can manage to not get hit, and then unleash a huge damage skill with high crit chance. Like building in some high risk by using skills that may not deal much, if any damage, then a good chance to land that big finisher. Maybe build in a way to end the combo string early if you don't like your chances of persisting evasion.
 

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