who's played undertale

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by kitsune121x, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. amaSenpai

    amaSenpai LP: amaSenpai Veteran

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    I just thought it was a fun concept that poked fun at the common ground of most gamers. Completionist mindset, grinding for XP, and saving the game. I enjoy all the hidden touches and humor as well. 

    Some of the fans make me uneasy.. 

    maybe because the characters were just so sweet and wholesome, it is strange to see NSFW art about the game. Obviously there is a big community for it -- but I will be staying far away from it. 
     
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  2. Euphony

    Euphony Veteran Veteran

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    Bahahaha. Sadly, this could be said for pretty much any game, television show, movie, cartoon, or other piece of media in existence. Rule 34 and all the jazz. I'd like the blame the Internet, but the disappointing truth is that this sort of thing has probably existed for longer than we can imagine.
     
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  3. amaSenpai

    amaSenpai LP: amaSenpai Veteran

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    Very true! 

    And I have no problem with that type of ruling in general. The game's intention was to make you feel as if the characters were your friends, so it changes the perception a bit. I have no doubts that people are the same throughout history....

    Just look at classic literature and art. Almost everything was fanfiction of a greater work before it, and before THAT it was fanfiction of religion. Haha!
     
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  4. Ultimacj

    Ultimacj Cookie Knight Veteran

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    Seeing all these replies to Undertale.....

    It fills me with determination.
     
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  5. Ratty524

    Ratty524 Veteran Veteran

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    Yeaaah I consider myself a fan, but I'm really not at the level of drawing porn art and all the things associated with rabid fanboyism. I feel for you there.

    I don't really understand why people compare it to Earthbound so much. Sure, there is some obvious inspiration from it and the developer originally made Earthbound hacks that made him popular, but Undertale doesn't really share the same theme or even gameplay. Unless every RPG that has atypical settings and quirky humor is considered "Earthbound" nowadays? If so, it's kind of crappy.

    PS -  I can' believe someone made an Undertale thread without talking about the kickass MUSIC in this game!



    This theme and the boss fight made my life.
     
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  6. Kaelan

    Kaelan Veteran Veteran

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    That's one of my favorite parts of this game. The music is incredible, and it just gets better as you get into the later portions of the game.

    Someone made an entire album of Undetale song covers, and it's amazing.Toby (the guy who made the game) was tweeting about it a while ago. Go listen to it!




    edit: omg he made a Dummy! cover
     
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  7. nio kasgami

    nio kasgami VampCat Veteran

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    yes I just saw them...they are freaking awesome lol I love Battle against a true hero remake haha
     
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  8. Makio-Kuta

    Makio-Kuta Canadian Goose Veteran

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    There's a lot of talk of 'good vs evil' 'humans vs monsters' and the like in this thread. While that is the backbone of the game's story, I REALLY don't see it as the core of the game's messages or meanings or what the game is trying to say. At face level? Sure! But not if you really dig in it.

    It's about a player VS the concept of a game. (especially the genocide route) It's like an essay on US and forcing us to reflect and think about the things we do, not just in this game, but in all games.

    The strongest contender to this theme is the first Fallen Child (Chara's) ability to save. That's a thing a player can do in the game. So essentially we have to stop viewing them as 'human' or 'monster' but as a player. Who do you name in this game? You don't name the current Fallen Child (Frisk), but you name the first. Typically a game let's you name the player character; Chara IS a player character.
    It's heavily hinted at through the videos in the true lab (and through your interactions in the genocide route) that Chara was NOT a 'good' person. It can also be inferred through things Flowey says that Chara and Asriel abused that power to save. How many of us as players can say that we've saved, did something AWFUL in a game just to see what happened and then reloaded? The game doesn't remember, everything continues as normal - everyone remains as friends or whatever status they held before we decided to do said awful thing. This is what Chara represents. Chara is that sort of player. (and dragged Asriel along for the ride presumably)

    We also have Flowey (who is Asriel corrupted by Chara) resetting the game to keep 'playing' with you - you who remind him of the friend he lost. Just another example of abusing a the powers of a player. Did you love a game so much that you restarted it to experience it again? Even that sort of behaviour is being analyzed here. (Referenced again when you start the game up after a pacifist ending and Flowey of all people BEGS you not to restart the game. Begs you to let everyone stay happy.)

    Determination, a game the word throws around a lot, is a player's power. The idea that in a video game, if a player is determined enough for something to happen - it can happen. A monster can't have determination - the game tells us. That is because they are constructs of the game, not players. That's a power for us - 'humans' who control the game. The closest thing we see to a monster gaining determination is Undyne's fight against you in the genocide run because at that point YOU are the monster and she has become the heroine. We see her melting, much like the monsters in the Lab who were infused with determination, but her newfound status as a heroine against a threat let's her keep it together. Ultimately though, she can't hold up to a real player's determination - because we still have the power to save and load and do it over as many times as we want.

    The game is coded in a way to give certain characters the ability to remember things you've done even if you've reloaded. (Flowey, Sans, and to a small extent Asgore) This suddenly makes the power of a player hold consequences. We suddenly can't just do things to see what happens without some form of a backlash. Flowey remembers that time you killed Toriel. Sans remembers how many times you've been here before. Selling your soul to Chara has an ESPECIALLY negative impact on a pacifist run following that.

    And Sans. Oh Sans... if the game's major conflict was REALLY supposed to be humans VS monsters - then Sans would not be the strongest boss in the game since he is actually rather detached from that whole narrative, but he is. That battle is not a fight against Sans and Frisk. It's a fight between Sans and YOU. All the breaking of the fourth wall, all the direct messing with the battle screen's windows, toying with how the battle itself can be allowed to run (the time skips mid attack, attacking first at the start of the battle, attacking during the menu selection, etc etc) I could be wrong, but I highly doubt anyone can beat that fight going in blind on a first try. At the very least, it wasn't designed to be something you can beat on the first attempt. The only way to beat that fight is with the one thing a game can never have: Determination.

    Trying again and again until you finally figure it out and get through. The game telling you to go back to the beginning; why keep doing this? The line that kicks the most there is the one that's something like "If you really thought of us as friends, you wouldn't come back."

    But a player does come back. Keeps coming back. And for what? A shitty ending where everyone is dead? Why? Why do we want that?

    Because as a player we have to see it. We have to explore every option. We've been given the power to do it, so we have to do it.

    And I honestly think that that is what the game is trying to make us question. Not the morality of 'humans vs monsters' but the very understanding of a 'player vs the game.'
    I'm sure there's more evidence than what I listed here towards 'player VS the game' being the true narrative of the game, but these are the points that stand out the strongest for me. And it's that that I love most about the game. Sure, the story is good, the music is AMAZING, the characters are charming, (I can't touch on the gameplay. I've watched the game 3 times from three different people, but I haven't played my own run yet) - but it's just the whole way the game handles the aspect of a player's impact on a game that delights me and sets this game apart from others.

    Anyway, I'm just sad that this wasn't touched on by anyone in this thread yet that I saw. The game is so much more than 'humans vs monsters' :< That's my favourite thing about this game. (I mean, next to Napstablook.)

    edit btw, linking to youtube links and not where you can buy the full album itself? tsk tsk - [DETERMINATION]
     
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  9. AwesomeCool

    AwesomeCool Bratty and spoiled little sister Veteran

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    The music in  Undertale is my favorite part of the game. :)

    @Makio - I think you are thinking way to hard about it.  

    @amaSempai - As a huge Dark Souls fanboy, I can tell you that there are always people in fanbases that are way to obsessive.  And I mean praising a game like it is some sort of cult obsessive.  
     
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  10. Makio-Kuta

    Makio-Kuta Canadian Goose Veteran

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    @AwesomeCool - With that much evidence, and the game directly STATING things to the person playing (and even to people WATCHING the person play) you are going to say that I am overthinking it? Okay then.
     
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  11. Indrah

    Indrah Megane Berserker Veteran

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    @Awsomecool: You're free to take the game as lightly as you like for yourself. You're fully entitled to that. But it's rather rude to dismiss deeper digests of it out of hand, especially when the game is so obviously designed for it. And especially when you don't have anything to add to the conversation. It would be one thing to just say "I don't see it that way", but that's not the case. Rude, dude :/
     
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  12. amaSenpai

    amaSenpai LP: amaSenpai Veteran

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    I think I could easily be counted in crazy fandom for some things. Pretty sure I've hit cult obsessed for FF7 a long, long time now.

    I just hope it's not as obvious now as it was in my teens... Hehehe.
     
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  13. AwesomeCool

    AwesomeCool Bratty and spoiled little sister Veteran

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    I understand that it can be taken rudly (now that I read it again).  But that was what I truly believe (I think people over-analyze games to much and way to often).  I didn't mean to cause any insult to Makio with that statement, I just thought this game was being analyzed way to hard.

    I hate lying or telling half-truths. I also hate being told to keep opinions to myself (in fear of making the person feel wronged/bad in any way).

    I could be completely wrong (I end up being wrong plenty of times like everyone else) and even if I end up not being wrong, Makio is free to keep believing in what she wants (and can even completely ignore what I said if she desires).

    Also, if I said "I don't see it that way", then I would be talking about a completely different subject.  I also made it a short point because I did not want to derail the thread (if I provided my own counterpoints, then that will be talked about for 2+ pages).

    I would talk more, but I would just derail the thread further.

    So I am sorry Makio if you took offense from my post and I did not mean to.
     
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  14. Makio-Kuta

    Makio-Kuta Canadian Goose Veteran

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    It did sort of sting to type that much about something I passionately think to have it hand waved away with a "you're overthinking it"

    I'd actually be incredibly curious to see how the facts I stated DON'T point to the overall narrative I suggested and it'd still be on topic, since the topic has just been "people discussing playing Undertale"
     
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  15. Ronove

    Ronove ♫꒰・‿・๑꒱ Veteran

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    I really do agree with you Makio! I slightly touched upon it in my post about how the game uses the medium itself but I didn't talk about it at length as you did!

    To add more to that too, I really do think it is you vs. the game. When you finish the game on a Pacifist route (like completely finish it), and reload the game, the game asks you to not restart because you'd be undoing the happy lives after you've finished with the Pacifist route. In addition, if you complete a Genocide route and restart, you have to wait 10 minutes before something shows up in the title screen so you can "restart" and...

    Should you say yes to restarting, this Chara gets your soul and even if you do a pacifist run in that restart, Chara will be there to kill everyone at the end because you sold your soul to them to redo everything but they're still there. So if you do the genocide run, there's no way to get the best ending anymore unless you think outside the box and clean your save file. It's making you take responsibility for your actions during the genocide run and again, giving those completionists a slap in the face.
    In addition, during the last boss for the Neutral route, Flowey constantly reloads his own save so he can keep trying to kill you. Like what a player would do should they lose, they'd reload their save to try to take on the last boss again should they fail. There is a LOT in the game to promote the game vs. the player theory.
     
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  16. Marsigne

    Marsigne Sephiroth Veteran

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    Makio-kuta really do nail it. After reading her post, I've got to watch Undertale's LPs (specifically the Pacifist Playthrough). I've only seen the first part, but I can say that I don't know what's the fuss about. There is no "good vs evil" or "humans vs monsters" some people bring up (again, I haven't seen much, but still). What I've seen is that the monsters of this game aren't the typical monsters of RPGs which have bad intentions and want to kill you. Instead, these ones have sentiments and can actually be friendly with you if you choose it so. If you can be friendly with the monster, why not? If the monsters were inherently bad (like Flowey), THEN you can stop him, like we do in RPGs. How do the game favours me in my point? well,

    you can kill Flowey and still get the true pacifist ending.
    And hey, typical doesn't mean bad ;) and the game doesn't bash the typical monsters like I've heard (I'm glad!). Because? well, read above again ;)
    The game in general gives me the impression that it is made for an educative game for a kid. Granted, I haven't seen much yet, but that's the initial impression of mine. I understand there is so much more depth in there, and it seems it is meant to troll some type of players (ouch! :popcorn:  ).
     
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  17. Makio-Kuta

    Makio-Kuta Canadian Goose Veteran

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    Yes! All of this! Especially the Flowey boss and not only that, but Flowey threatening to reload your death over and over to kill you over and over is really similar to a player who keeps a save file just to fight "that boss" again. Which is not actually a thing you can do by default in Undertale since you can only have one save file. (Apparently Sans has a line of dialogue special to if you beat him and then reload anyway. I've never seen it - I wonder if it's something to jab at this concept? Curious.
    Undoing the Genocide route takes a lot more than just deleting your save file as well. Especially if you play the Steam version - Steam Cloud will keep putting something back in your App Data to reflag your game as Soulless.
    @Marsigne: I'm not sure how far you've watched Marsigne, but it's the VERY early bits with Toriel, that education feeling is probably on purpose. I mean, it's a tuTORIAL after all. 
     
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  18. Ronove

    Ronove ♫꒰・‿・๑꒱ Veteran

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    @Marsigne: I'm not sure how far you've watched Marsigne, but it's the VERY early bits with Toriel, that education feeling is probably on purpose. I mean, it's a tuTORIAL after all. 
    I've read if you beat Sans and reload he calls you a freak or something like that. APPARENTLY you must just like punishment! Part of me just kinda wants to try his battle but I doubt I'd even make it past Undyne in a genocide run... not to mention I don't want to undo my Pacifist run T_T
    tuTORIAL I see what you did there.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Aoi Ninami

    Aoi Ninami Veteran Veteran

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    To be fair, that pun probably was the intention behind her name.
     
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  20. Ronove

    Ronove ♫꒰・‿・๑꒱ Veteran

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    Okay I'm slow on the uptake. I didn't even think of it until Makio spelled it out.
     
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