who's played undertale

Chaos Avian

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I still think Mettaton's is the easiest boss fight (ESPECIALLY if you're a Touhou player :p ), but Muffet my word is a tough cookie... Undyne isn't that hard I found, just those damn reverse arrows xD

@Makio-Kuta: OMG the Temmie Armour!! Godly brilliance, plus the Temmies themselves and Bob. I couldn't deal, they're too good (I wonder what Tem Flakes taste like...) xD They made me realise I need a ridiculous mascot that's unnecessary at first glance and stupidly cute~ :3
 
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nio kasgami

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I mean by trolling it's...how incredible in genocide he look like and how you have to beat him lol you expect a super battle and BOOM nope 
 
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Makio-Kuta

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Temmie is fantastic! And I love how the one at the Tem Shop will snub you after getting a degree if you refuse the special offer price a second time. "I'm the one with a degree."

It's amazing I find these characters (species?) cute though; as I feel like under a different writer Tem would be very annoying.

Nio, put stuff like that in a spoiler box i.i that's a big moment
 
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amaSenpai

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I imagine tem flakes to be very stale cornflakes.

And they eat them with a fervor without milk?
 
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Ksi

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Gonna delve into spoilers a little here but...

- Undyne's fight had absolutely no clue that you had to run away. That's plain bad game design. I died a lot of times on that fight, especially since it seemed that with skill you could progress in it. If you're designing a fight where you have to run, at least make the damn thing impossible - it's basically like one of those battles where you're supposed to lose, but the designer forgot to make it apparent that you couldn't win by making it seem that you are making progress.

- fricking Mettaton's battle is BS.

- Some of the enemies are so full of **** in the battles. It'd be easier to kill the ****ers if I'd bothered to level up any over the course of the adventure (but nooooo, can't kill the fricking monsters because then you're evil in the eyes of the fandom :/ )

- Do not get me started on having the Asgore battle basically straight after Mettaton's. That **** be whack, yo.
Basically, I think the idea of a bullet hell jRPG is interesting... in theory, but it isn't my cup of tea and I hated almost every battle I had to go through. It made no sense that even when the enemies no longer wanted to fight, they'd still attack, for example. Sure, the enemy ideas were interesting - there's a lot of great designs there (hello Tsundereplane) - but it just ended up annoying me most of the time.

Outside of battles, I enjoyed the game a lot, but I want a non-battle mode, plox.
 
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Makio-Kuta

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There actually is a hint for the Undyne fight, though it's not a very GOOD one. When she first turns you green she mentions something like "There, now you can't run away in that form." I mean, yeah, not a great hint, but the intent is there.
The part that bugs me most is the Asgore fight and the fact that you actually HAVE to fight. I get it from a story standpoint, and again the things he says back it up, but anyone I've watched do that part didn't realize that they actually had to fight until told otherwise - they were stubbornly sure they could just keep sparing like with everyone else. Again - there's things indicating that that isn't the case, but being boxed into beating someone up on a pacifist run from a technical standpoint is kinda ... ehnnn.

I'm ... going to guess you started out fighting the monsters and people in comments cried out about it??? Again, sucks you had a run in like that. I mean, you could always play it the way you want to privately and just not upload it I suppose. (but I guess that's silly for someone who LPs stuff for posting online)

I wonder if there was originally going to be more content between Mettaton and Asgore - the kickstarter page mentioned 'dating a robot'
A battle free mode would be nice, since bullet-hells are not really a very hmm what's the word... widespread genre??? I guess that's what watching someone else play is for though.
 

Kaelan

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- Undyne's fight had absolutely no clue that you had to run away. That's plain bad game design. I died a lot of times on that fight, especially since it seemed that with skill you could progress in it. If you're designing a fight where you have to run, at least make the damn thing impossible - it's basically like one of those battles where you're supposed to lose, but the designer forgot to make it apparent that you couldn't win by making it seem that you are making progress.

- fricking Mettaton's battle is BS.

- Some of the enemies are so full of **** in the battles. It'd be easier to kill the ****ers if I'd bothered to level up any over the course of the adventure (but nooooo, can't kill the fricking monsters because then you're evil in the eyes of the fandom :/ )

- Do not get me started on having the Asgore battle basically straight after Mettaton's. That **** be whack, yo.
Basically, I think the idea of a bullet hell jRPG is interesting... in theory, but it isn't my cup of tea and I hated almost every battle I had to go through. It made no sense that even when the enemies no longer wanted to fight, they'd still attack, for example. Sure, the enemy ideas were interesting - there's a lot of great designs there (hello Tsundereplane) - but it just ended up annoying me most of the time.
- Her very first line of dialogue in the fight tells you how to win

- Not killing monsters is supposed to be harder than killing them. They're puzzles, you're supposed to spend time trying to figure out how to progress

- Not sure why the enemies still attacking when you can spare them is a problem. The names turn yellow to signal that you're done, I'm not sure why you'd keep getting attacked afterwards? 

It sounds like you just don't like puzzles. There's clear clues to what you ought to be doing in pretty much every battle. The thing is this game is willing to be subtle and assume you're smart enough to read the clues and figure it out on your own, rather than beating you over the head with the answer. In that sense, I'd say it's a lot like Dark Souls - it runs the risk of people just not getting the clues it and becoming frustrated, but it's the price of being subtle.

The only fight I felt wasn't fair was Toriel's. The frog at the start clues you in on sparing monsters that aren't yellow-named, but there's no hint that you're supposed to do it repeatedly, her first dialogue response to sparing doesn't indicate you'll get a different result if you try again, and it's a mechanic that never shows up with any monster before that. The last hit is also a bit unfair, since there's absolutely no hint that hitting her after she's down to ~30% will one-shot her. When I first played - based on her dialogue and the frog in the ruins - I thought the solution was to get her HP within 1 or 2 hits of death, then spare her, so I ended up killing her by accident. Asgore gives you a message before the last hit ("Asgore's HP is low" or something like that), so Toriel is really the only boss that has no warning. That was the only time I thought, after figuring out the mechanics, that the fight was a little unfair.
 

Ultimacj

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Gonna delve into spoilers a little here but...

- Undyne's fight had absolutely no clue that you had to run away. That's plain bad game design. I died a lot of times on that fight, especially since it seemed that with skill you could progress in it. If you're designing a fight where you have to run, at least make the damn thing impossible - it's basically like one of those battles where you're supposed to lose, but the designer forgot to make it apparent that you couldn't win by making it seem that you are making progress.

- fricking Mettaton's battle is BS.

- Some of the enemies are so full of **** in the battles. It'd be easier to kill the ****ers if I'd bothered to level up any over the course of the adventure (but nooooo, can't kill the fricking monsters because then you're evil in the eyes of the fandom :/ )

- Do not get me started on having the Asgore battle basically straight after Mettaton's. That **** be whack, yo.
Basically, I think the idea of a bullet hell jRPG is interesting... in theory, but it isn't my cup of tea and I hated almost every battle I had to go through. It made no sense that even when the enemies no longer wanted to fight, they'd still attack, for example. Sure, the enemy ideas were interesting - there's a lot of great designs there (hello Tsundereplane) - but it just ended up annoying me most of the time.

Outside of battles, I enjoyed the game a lot, but I want a non-battle mode, plox.
I better use this spoiler tag! :p

When Fighting Undyne the game 'hints' you about running away the whole "Hahaha you can't RUN while you're still green" wasn't a indication.This only applies to Netural/Pacfist route. In Genocide, you kill her, nuff said.
I agree Mettaton is a tough cookie, there's a lot to dodge but the idea is to stock upon items that increase the ratings. The glamburger is one of them.

I think what makes these fights tough is you're level one.

For certain fights, if you're not good at dodging, you shouldn't be playing Undertale.
What would else would be there after Mettatron? You're at the palace.Not sure what else other than fighting enemies for grinding purposes for

neutral route.

Genocide route: You automatically jump from 15 to 19 prior to fighting the boss there.
 

Ksi

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@the lol she said run at the start of the battle brigade:

How about making it clearer than a throw-away line about having to run in a game where the only time you 'run' is when you spare something? It's not hard to figure out that people might not pick up the idea when 'oh, boss fight. you can never run from those anyway, so take my ability to run, doesn't matter. just gotta get you to be spared is all.' is the normal scheme of things.

It's completely unintuitive especially since you've never needed to use the run feature before (it doesn't work that well even in normal battles, which is another reason running as an option needs to be highlighted a LOT more.) Good game design dictates you make that clear as day to the player - both that it is something that will work and that it something you need to do.

One line at the start of a battle where your mind is on other things is not a clear sign at all, especially when:

- the option was taken away at the start of battle

- you've not been taught to run from any battle before

- games have ingrained the 'you cannot run from bosses' response in players, so it's a moot point

- game has taught you that sparing or killing is how you win battles. no other options

- there's a visual clue with the colour of the name when you can spare something, thus there's no reason to check that 'tab' until the name turns yellow.. which is never

- meaning you cannot see when run becomes an option again

- if the game tells you you can run again, I didn't see it/don't remember it, and I played that battle about 4 times

- if it did tell you, the choice of self-scrolling text is a stupid one because you're busy actually fighting and can miss the damn text (which I have done a lot when playing the game)

- the game has taught you that interaction is key

- there's progression in the battle that gives the idea that you're making progress in wearing her down

- progression = interaction working = should be able to spare soon = name turning yellow = never having to check the section with the run option in it because name is still white = no idea you can run

It was bad design that could be easily fixed by adding another prompt or two in there, reminding you that you can run. But hey, that's a problem the game has with the battles - cool ideas that are implemented in not-so-great and unintuitive ways. At least it had decent writing/characters, great music and some good graphics here and there.
I have done an LP of the game if anyone wants to watch it and ***** about how much I 'hate' the game, though (I don't. I might rage at it in some points, but I also do a lot of SQUEEEE CUUUUTE in others). Well, I say I've done... I'm stuck just before Assgore, but I'll get back to it soon enough. I just need a small break to recharge my batteries. I'll admit I love making the thumbnails for it a lot. I think this is my favourite:



Also, did someone say Temmie?

 

Ultimacj

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I'm waiting to hear someone complain about the font of the game.  I've seen people complain about that.

The beginning of the game tells you can 'spare' enemies or even run unless you didn't talk
to the frogs at the ruins.
As for it's a moot point:  If the argument is about, Players are use to having running away from fights, it's part of an RPG mechanic fair enough but that's what makes Undertale unqiue when it comes to fleeing or sparing:  It's something you don't see everyday in the game and I guess people are "spoiled" that every RPG must have this option.  I've played a handful of games that didn't have a run away option, while annoying for most of the games it made sense in others.

Also. it should be fair to point out that you shouldn't have to be reminded that late in the game (or any other game) that you can do this action (in this case spare/run).  If you forget about that action, and say the game should tell me I should do this. That's like someone saying 1/2 through a game : Btw you need to rest at an inn to recover your health, we just wanted to hold your hand and remind you of this!

Zelda OoT was bad about this, every other corner it was "HEY LISTEN!!!" Damnit Navi, I know this already, shut up!  Lol

I can't imagine when you get to Sans Ksi, there will be a lot of 'squeeing' there xD

Asgore fight is a tough one, especially at level one.  Unless you're going on a Genocide route, all these fights are somewhat puzzle based and you just have to figure out the pattern.  I think it makes sense if the monsters still attack you when spare is now available, I mean look at the monsters point of view.  It's fighting in self defense, it doesn't know if you're going to really spare it or kill it.  So it continues attacking.  Some monsters won't fight at all, but most of them will.
 

Ksi

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You -can- run... to avoid battles, sure, but you never -have- to. If there'd been foreshadowing of having to run from an enemy beforehand, fair enough, but there wasn't, so again, bad game design. The fact of the matter is that it was plain stupid to expect someone to know to run from a boss battle with only the one line at the start of the battle - which was basically saying 'oh,hey, look boss battle. you can't run from those... just like every other RPG out there!'. It did not say 'Oh, hey, look, run is back on the menu. you should do that!!!' or give you ANY hint that that was what you were supposed to do.

Bad. Game. Design.

I get that you like the game but it has issues and sticking your head in the sand and blustering about it like 'oh but it's so different and fresh and new and awesome and blah blah' doesn't excuse that kind of stupidity. A game can be good and still have bad **** in it, ffs. That's part of the reason I don't like the fandom much. They act like it's God's gift to games, when really it's a decent game with a badly designed battle system.

(The concept of the battles themselves are really good. Like, super great ideas, but the implementation was pretty bad. If I'm playing a game and I want to just remove every battle from it due to frustration, then there's an issue with the battles. I don't care how much you can interact with the enemy or how cute and funny they might be written, if I'd rather skip the battle than engage the enemy, there's a huge problem there that needs to be fixed, especially if you can beat the game without actually making any character progress at all. Battles ended up not mattering unless you play homicidal maniac, but once you decided not to kill anything, they were useless time wasters that just padded out the game. They literally had no point.

Frankly, I'd have preferred it if the battles were more like puzzles in that you had to solve how to placate the enemy... without the tedious bullet hell BS. Maybe keep some of the better ones in like the tsundereplane and the like, but I hated the battles. (Die Aaron, you Frick))

Actually, I would have preferred to have the enemies as NPCs on the map once that choice is made. Like, have them on the map and you have a choice to attack or talk to them. None of this 'talk to the monster while dodging the BS that is sent your way just so you can basically leave the battle with no fricking reason to have battled in the first place'. They didn't even drop items (which would have made them useful) and money was only useful for buying items to use in the useless battles. It was basically just a stupid time sink - let enemies go to make money to let enemies go to make money to let enemies go... and so on. Might as well have just cut that from the whole thing, slapped some money in a chest or two (for spider bake), and only had the boss fights put in (toned way the Frick down unless your 'level' was x amount).

In case you can't tell, I really hated the battles.
Sans was okay. I liked his brother better. Much better. Super better. Spaghettio better.

Alphys is best, though.

Strike that, Scraggy is best (monster kid. I called him an actual name because monster kid is a description, not a fricking name... and he looks like that pokemon).
 
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Makio-Kuta

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I'm on Ksi's side with the Undyne fight really. Again, I know the hint is there, but it's not really the strongest one. The attempt was made, but it wasn't the best way it could have been done.

It could have been as easy as her dropping another similar line the second time you go green. I don't think it would be annoying; all of the characters throw dialogue around in battle constantly, her included. And putting there won't bother people who managed to get the hint the first time because they would have already run.
Two of the people I watched play this game I watched play it live and this battle stumped both of them for the same reason. I saw the hint as a spectator, but to both of them it didn't mean much.

The line, btw, is "As long as you're GREEN you CAN'T ESCAPE."

What I don't remember is if that line plays at the start of every attempt or just the first, since a lot of boss enemies have changed dialogue when you fight them a second time.
I keep meaning to watch your LP, Ksi, but I'm leery to because I don't handle people raging at things well. (especially if there's a lot of swearing involved; is there a lot of swearing involved?)

EDIT: Well, I can't be on your side for THAT tho. Napstablook is the best!
 
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Ksi

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I do swear quite a bit in general... my post might point that out (bar it all being replaced with friendlier words XD ). It's just flavour for me, though I do swear more when I'm frustrated, but it's the funny kind of rage, I think, and I do give props where it's due. (That battle with our... robot friend... was full of frustration due to my recording dying three times and then not being able to capture it because the save editor doesn't reset the battles and the saving is stupid. I can understand why he picked to have one save that got overwritten but it's very annoying for when you want to go back to a previous save. ;.; ) I'm not the kind of rage-quit person - I'll point out why x is stupid while raging... and it's usually just constructive... hm. I don't yell... just talk forcefully through gritted teeth and sigh a lot. XD

Napstablook is a strong 4th in my book. Or 3rd.
 
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Dalph

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Pretty sure nobody figured it out about what to do against Undyne in True Pacifist (I did the same mistake and was wondering as well about why the fight wasn't ending), the hint is there but so damn subtle, more details added would've been definitely a lot better. I agree on that.

As for the characters, it's hard to choose because they are all well made but Sans is definitely the best and most intriguing, although if I really should pick then my favourite would definitely be Papyrus (and not because of pasta) but I do like his personality a lot, he's lighthearted, funny and when he acts arrogant you never take him seriously to the point of disliking him, that is some pretty good writing.

The battles were pretty much all easy to me (or challenging at most), I guess it's because I'm used to play bullet-hell games, also we have to consider that once you finish the game over and over u start getting used to the enemy attack pattern at the end, so it will be easier to dodge everything.
 

amaSenpai

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I will forever be a sucker for Asgore.

I loved every second of his.. What, 5 minute screen time?? Yes, the other characters are amazing. Papy holds a dear place in my heart. Sans is great too.

But I feel Asgore really went above his needs for the needs of the underground. It makes me sad that he gets pushed to the side by Toriel
 

Ultimacj

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I'm not talking about the character Sans itself, I meant the FIGHT itself :p   Or Undyne for that matter (Genocide Route only)I will admit the game has it's flaws here and there. If Undertale had piss poor controls, being a somewhat bullet hell type of game; I'd prob be done with it.  Luckily not the case.

The story and other elements make up for it in a HUGE way -- making me wanting to know what happens next.

NOTE Only read the next spoiler if you're gonna do a full LP of fighting the boss after Asgore: Flowely.  I was like, seriously what happened to my PC
Prior to the last boss in neutral route: The game crashes, deliberately. When you resume, you'll see why.
I've seen some folks get mad at this because it would ruin the LP and they would have to edit.
", if I'd rather skip the battle than engage the enemy"
That kinda defeats the point of going for True Pacifist or even Neutral route.
You have to 'figure out' how to tame the enemy,

Now if you're going to "kill da things!" then that's different. Which is why most folk
save the Genocide route for last.
For most regular RPGS, I completely agree.  I don't like huge amounts of grinding either.  I usually only level when I have to do or if I'm doing secrets. 
So just a warning.
For Genocide ending. Kinda dumb waiting exactly 10 minutes to be able to play again after
getting the ending upon re-launching the game. I get the whole world is
destroyed but damn really? 10 freaking minutes
 

Oddball

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Undertale is unique, which makes it refreshing among rpgs. I love that there is another choice of how to interact with monsters besides slaughter them. Its made me laugh even, which few games do
 

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