Why all the hate with assets?

GodOfKnockers

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I just put my Game up on Steam Greenlight, and while It's getting up votes, it's also getting a heavy share of harsh criticism. People telling me it's not something they are interested in buying, even if I had the option, and one person calling me 'lazy' for using Assets, and saying that I've never tried to make graphics of my own, which isn't true - I've been trying to make custom graphics for the longest time, and I suck at it. I'm not even joking or selling myself short on this.

So I ask - why all the hate for a game that no one hasn't tried out? And yes, there is a demo.
 

mlogan

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If you search the forums, there are a lot of topics discussing this. Basically, a bunch of people rushed out crappy games using the RM RTP graphics. People have associated those with crappy games. Search "default rtp" or something similar here in General Discussion and perhaps Commercial Discussion and you'll probably find the topics discussing it at length.
 

Shaz

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People who can't do, criticize. Ignore them. You have made a game. They haven't. If/when you sell, use some of the money to commission custom assets for your next game. Not everyone has an AAA budget and you shouldn't let that stop you.
 

cyberwaffle

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Yeah that is why I try to find assets other than the default RTP that other people have made to use in my games. I try to design mine but I can't either like you so I lean on what other people have made that I find here on the forums and elsewhere online.

Just a tip, sometimes its hard to find exactly what you need in terms of assets online that people made specifically for RPG maker MV so don't be afraid to search for VX Ace assets or even XP assets and just convert them.
 

GodOfKnockers

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People who can't do, criticize. Ignore them. You have made a game. They haven't. If/when you sell, use some of the money to commission custom assets for your next game. Not everyone has an AAA budget and you shouldn't let that stop you.

Regardless of the harsh criticism, I maintain my optimism. I'm going to continue making my games, no matter what, and make the best. Thank you everyone. :)
 

Uddra

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Yep there's a lot of bad games running RTP, as "mlogan" already said people associate the RTP with those games... I understand but doesn't necessarily mean that your game is not worthed. We have to try something before criticize.

It depends of each one but don't let yourself down, always keep learning and improving!
See ya :ewink:
 

Haydeos

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It's only dishonorable if you can't take criticism and start deleting comments.
 

TomatoKing

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On a personal note, I rather play something with simple but original graphics than something with RTP ones.

It's not that the RTP graphics are bad, they are pretty good actually, but they have been done to death, it's why most RPG Maker games look the same, no matter how much parallax layers you stick on top, it's always the same tree, the same cave, the same item shop, how am I supposed to get any kind of sense of exploration if there's only a minuscule chance of finding something remotely unique?

Also, http://www.2dgameartguru.com/, you don't need to be an artist to make original graphics, as I said, I'd rather play something made with heart and personal touch than something cobbled together from stock assets and random plugins.
 

RishigangiX

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On a fair note, there are a LOT of RM developers who put their games out on Steam with little to no polish. I can't comment on your project unless I see it myself, but the main idea of greenlight is presentation. You have to make the audience understand that your game is worthy of being on steam, and that you have put significant effort into making the game. One of the biggest drawbacks of the system is that people will judge based on what they see, and small RTP edits, community resources, tilepacks,, and custom assets mixed with RTP can go a long way into making a good impression there.

My game uses RTP, too, but when I put it on Greenlight, I got around 47% Up votes with not a single harsh comment or criticism. This surprised me a lot because I was prepared in advance for the harsh commenters and trolls to bash on it for using RTP. If you don't believe me, you can check out the link below. Same can be said for many of the other RM games that passed greenlight recently.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=760430171


One of the easiest ways to bypass the RTP hate if you don't have the funds for custom resources is to use a lot of community resources in your presentation. The RMW community is one of the best I've ever seen, and there are countless contributors who allow you to use their resources commercially without asking for anything in return. While I am yet to thank them personally, words can't describe how grateful I am to them. Use them, they are meant to be used, as long as you can follow their terms. While the Steam community may have grown accustomed to the overused no-edit RTP, they are not hardcore developers who keep track of every resource that gets posted here.
Second, you can do simple edits to your tiles to show that you've done something yourself. Simple rounded caves, walls, recolors, etc. can do a lot for you.
Finally, even if your game consists of 80% RTP, try to present the 20% which contains some degree of customization to the masses as selling point screenshots.

Hope this helps.
 

jezebelthenun

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It's an unfortunate side effect of the advanced technology in gaming, coupled with the inability to differentiate original, entertaining RPG Maker games from utter garbage on the workshop.

A lot of younger players won't even look at a game with RTP graphics, which is extremely stupid, in my opinion. They are missing out on some engaging stories and mechanics. Then you have people releasing HORRIBLE games made in a day, 2 days, with no plot, vacant characters, and generated dungeons. . .

It's sad really.
 

GodOfKnockers

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It's an unfortunate side effect of the advanced technology in gaming, coupled with the inability to differentiate original, entertaining RPG Maker games from utter garbage on the workshop.

A lot of younger players won't even look at a game with RTP graphics, which is extremely stupid, in my opinion. They are missing out on some engaging stories and mechanics. Then you have people releasing HORRIBLE games made in a day, 2 days, with no plot, vacant characters, and generated dungeons. . .

It's sad really.

I actually know a few people who are like that. I've always looked into the gameplay and storyline of a game, and I have found a ton of great games.


Back to the topic at hand...What is the feeling about modifying the base assets that come with the engine?
 

Kes

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so don't be afraid to search for VX Ace assets or even XP assets and just convert them

Just one point on this, but a very important one. If you use VXAce assets you have to own the VXAce engine. The same for XP assets. You cannot use assets made for an engine you do not own. Note also that many assets which look like they were made for VXAce were in fact made for VX and unless the creator has updated their terms, it usually states that you have to own VX.
 

Niten Ichi Ryu

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Tbh, I'd rather see a game using RTP well than looking like its been drawn by a 7 years old. Some people for ex draw custom busts but they don't look good. It actually hinders the game for me.

Better RTP than rips, and better RTP than shody custom graphics. There are indeed hate because of rushed games, but mostly its pure stupidity, spite and bitterness coming from cultureless, jealous armchair game critics (but what else to expect coming from steam community). Folks who never will try to make a game are the first ones to call you lazy for using software provided assets (particularly graphics, that's the only stuff their narrow mind can notice) or not "coding your own engine".

Listen to constructive criticism, make sure your presentation highlights mechanics, and don't listen to trolls saying "buh, lazy, assets, gtfo" just to run with the hate crowd.
 

TomatoKing

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Tbh, I'd rather see a game using RTP well than looking like its been drawn by a 7 years old. Some people for ex draw custom busts but they don't look good. It actually hinders the game for me.

Better RTP than rips, and better RTP than shody custom graphics.

How are people supposed to learn how to make good graphics if they don't even try?

7bae9298793d291edd7422b3adacf466.jpg

With tools like inkscape and krita being free, and thousands of game art tutorials readily available there's literally no excuse for using stock art except not wanting to learn how to make your own.
 

cl4ptr4p

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Some people are just really lazy to open their minds and gather information as much as they can before they start criticizing something.
 

Niten Ichi Ryu

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Ahem... @TomatoKing

So You mean using stock art is lazy? Because not wanting to learn may sound as lazy if all this material is available?
With the same reasoning, I'm assuming you code your own plugins, there's so much JS tutorials available. Same goes for music.

Maybe some people are just not interested in making their own art or are perfectly happy using stock or store bought assets, showing yet creativity via edits.

I haven't said people who are interested in making good graphics shouldn't learn and improve, on the contrary. They should learn, improve and use their graphics when they become good.

Remember we are mainly talking about a game submitted to Greenlight. If you hope for commercial with custom graphics git gud at drawing, don't release a game with sub par drawings as part of your learning curve. If you don't want to use graphics, or have not the resources to devote to learn (like time) yet want to tell a story, then use stock assets. Just use them well.

By the way, I noticed you used google search. You know there are plenty of tutorials on how to code your own search engine.
http://mrbool.com/how-to-create-your-own-search-engine-with-php-and-mysql/32733

All it takes is the will to learn.
 
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TomatoKing

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Remember we are mainly talking about a game submitted to Greenlight. If you hope for commercial, git gud at drawing, don't release a game with sub par drawings as part of your learning curve.

If you hope for a commercial product, stock assets are the easiest way of getting your product glossed over, the fact that only a handful of people barely make a living out of rpgmaker in the west (not my words) should be a clear indication of that.


I think adding JS as a scripting language will have the effect of driving users AWAY from rpgmaker, since at the point that they are skilled enough on JS to make a truly unique game they will probably be skilled enough to use a more robust and tested alternative like cocos2D.
 

Jiffy

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I think adding JS as a scripting language will have the effect of driving users AWAY from rpgmaker, since at the point that they are skilled enough on JS to make a truly unique game they will probably be skilled enough to use a more robust and tested alternative like cocos2D.
This doesn't make any sense... are you at all experienced in Java? There is a huge difference from plugins that are a few lines long and an ENTIRE engine. Scripts are similar to an extension of sorts to the engine, creating an engine requires a lot more knowledge...
 

Niten Ichi Ryu

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The asset flip is kinda another phenomenon. It's about as much shody graphics as shody mechanics and poor gameplay thrown together for quick buck. While not totally irrelevant to the point, Sterling's video doesn't add much. Neither your point about JS.

Did you look at @RishigangiX 's game? Would you say it's an asset flip? There are more than one game made with RTP elements from ace or MV who got success on greenlight or itch.io.

The problem isn't people not making a living from RM, they ain't much people making a living with Unity either. Truth is they ain't much people making a living as indie amateur devs.
 

TomatoKing

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The problem isn't people not making a living from RM, they ain't much people making a living with Unity either. Truth is they ain't much people making a living as indie amateur devs.

Hmm, there are tons and tons of people making a living as indie pro devs, to the point that a lot of industry veterans are going indie, the question is where do you split the "pros" from the "amateurs", when I started in animation one of the first things my boss told me was "the fact that you make a living out of this makes you a professional, whether you are good or bad at it is another matter".

There are about half a dozen people who live on making RM games fulltime, but one of the reason they can do this is that they already have a dozen games out there commercially.

Just my inner circle of indie dev contacts is bigger than that, and I'm an antisocial f**k.

This doesn't make any sense... are you at all experienced in Java? There is a huge difference from plugins that are a few lines long and an ENTIRE engine. Scripts are similar to an extension of sorts to the engine, creating an engine requires a lot more knowledge...

First off, Java =/= Javascript :p, and second, I'm talking about people who can cook their own battlesystem and can bend RM whatever way they may need to fit their vision without relying on plugins someone else made, I'm fairly certain Yanfly could whip up his/her own engine straight up on Pixi.js with some research and without needing the RM middleman, since he/she is at the point of replacing huge chunks of RM functionality, but that won't bring in the ******* $$$
 

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