Why all the hate with assets?

[Jiffy]

First off, Java =/= Javascript , and second, I'm talking about people who can cook their own battlesystem and can bend RM whatever way they may need to fit their vision without relying on plugins someone else made, I'm fairly certain Yanfly could whip up his/her own engine straight up on Pixi.js with some research and without needing the RM middleman, since he/she is at the point of replacing huge chunks of RM functionality, but that won't bring in the ******* $$$

Ah ok, you weren't clear on the level of experience . Java and JavaScript at the core are the same thing, they are just handled differently. Your last post confused me, glad we got that cleared up lol


The people who are making bank through RM aren't the game creators, it's the tile set and plugin creators.

 

[TomatoKing]

The people who are making bank through RM aren't the game creators, it's the tile set and plugin creators.

This is their trade secret XD

And regarding JS what I mean by it driving people away from RM, I imagine a kid picking up Headfirst Javascript or a similar book, unlike Ruby (which honestly is a language I have never ever heard mentioned outside of RM circles) JS is a gateway language to much bigger things, like the aforementioned cocos2D, which I hazard to guess is the most widely used engine for 2D games on mobile, even above unity.

JS can land you a job on an actual game company, Ruby would get you people asking "What is Ruby?", and that is a good thing, just not for RM userbase numbers.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

The only real people making bank on RM is Kadokawa

Back on topic, which is why the hate on assets?

Because game devs are a particular bunch. And folks who know nothing about game dev are an even more particular bunch, yet all are entitled to an opinion. Trolls are just louder.

 

[TomatoKing]

Same reason people hate on Unity games made with marketplace assets, if 9 out of 10 things that come out of it are utter trash, most people are willing to miss the good 1 if it allows them to skip the 9, time is a precious resource after all, and it's not like we are starved for entertainment.

Unique art is the only surefire way to distinguish your product I doubt they got called out for using rpgmaker, just like Pillars of Eternity didn't get called out for using Unity.

 

[Andar]

Java and JavaScript at the core are the same thing, they are just handled differently.

No, they're not.
There is a saying:
"Java is to Javascript what ham is to hamster".
When Java was first developed and hyped as the first multiplatform language, Netscape decided to rename its browser language to javascript to jump in on the popularity train. That was the time of the browser war where Microsoft used its position with Windows to force the Internet Explorer through against the Netscape browser.
Java and javascript might have some similiarities, but they come from different purposes, different companies and different sources.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

T

Same reason people hate on Unity games made with marketplace assets, if 9 out of 10 things that come out of it are utter trash, most people are willing to miss the good 1 if it allows them to skip the 9, time is a precious resource after all, and it's not like we are starved for entertainment.

Unique art is the only surefire way to distinguish your product I doubt they got called out for using rpgmaker, just like Pillars of Eternity didn't get called out for using Unity.

That's the thing, even though the 9 out of 10 rule is often true, lets consider that the average gamer who just care about gaming and not a all about game development (So majority of the market) has no clue about what an Unity asset looks like. Nor what are the actual assets contained in the RM RTP. So how do they recognize an asset flip? They don't until folks like Sterling or the lets play bad RM games youtuber make videos about it.
Don't get me wrong, Sterling did a service to gamers when revealing such scams, but sadly it brought not the masses the idea that they should think before buying but that they should share in the hate.

Haters always going to hate. Despite using custom graphics, that stray cat game might still be called on for using RM by pseudo knowledgeable folks thinking engine should be coded by yourself.

The hate around assets isn't because gamers hate the RTP but because the interweb hates the RTP. Sad and shallow people love to hate, it gives them the feeling they have an opinion. Even better if it's a trendy hate, gives them the feeling they run with the wolves (while they actually just cry with the sheeps)

 

[Jiffy]

No, they're not.
There is a saying:
"Java is to Javascript what ham is to hamster".
When Java was first developed and hyped as the first multiplatform language, Netscape decided to rename its browser language to javascript to jump in on the popularity train. That was the time of the browser war where Microsoft used its position with Windows to force the Internet Explorer through against the Netscape browser.
Java and javascript might have some similiarities, but they come from different purposes, different companies and different sources.

Yea I guess you're right, that's kinda what I was saying about at its core, as both are used as a form of extension.

 

[PlayBoyMan]

If it's one thing I do know about games is that great graphics don't mean a good game.
A Perfectly good example: Undertale. The Graphics are nothing to sing about, but that game is amazing, because of the story and game mechanics. THAT's what really makes a game stand out. Graphics is an afterthought.

 

[Kes]

A gentle reminder to all.

It is unnecessary to quote whole posts if all you want to do is indicate who you are replying to. It makes the page slow to load and to scroll down, especially for those who access this on their phones. If you want to make it clear who you are answering, simply use the @membername convention. This will give you a dropdown box from which you can click the name you want. Tagging has the additional advantage of letting the person know that you replied to them, if they have that option checked in their Preferences.

Thanks.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

@Kes

Sorry bout that. Seems the reply option on a post automatically quote said post. Didn't noticed that before.

 

[PlayBoyMan]

@Kes

Apologies. I did that too. Thank you for the heads up.

 

[Jiffy]

A Perfectly good example: Undertale. The Graphics are nothing to sing about, but that game is amazing, because of the story and game mechanics. THAT's what really makes a game stand out. Graphics is an afterthought.

Well, this isn't entirely true. The graphics in Undertale actually made it a better game, if the game went any more in depth, the graphics just wouldn't have done it justice. Anyways, the reason Undertale managed to pull off with those graphics because of the story telling, battle system and music. Not to mention they technically are custom graphics, and this thread is about the RTP, but I guess it kinda applies

 

[PlayBoyMan]

@WolfFS
It kinda does to a point. On the other end of the spectrum, there are people who would have issues with the custom graphics. There is a user who gave flack to another dev who used custom graphics in his game, and said mine was worse than his. He may have been a troll, but the fact that gamers judge games based only on the graphics is nuts, and a little sad.

Oh and I do remember some users disliking Undertale because of the graphics.
Madness I tell ya.

 

[Ronove]

I thought the simplicity of the Undertale was intended to give you the nostalgic feel and besides, the battle sprites are really well done. That's different than someone using RTP because they simply don't have the ability to do something unique on their own. Sure, not everyone liked the Undertale graphics but to say it's comparable to people using RTP is kinda off I think. In addition, I don't think the graphics was an afterthought because it feels too intended especially the last two bosses. What I'm trying to say is I think Undertale may be a bad example for what you were trying to say.

Graphics do pull a lot of weight because people judge first on looks before delving deeper because what do they say? A picture is worth a thousand words. When I first saw Undertale, it was one of the last bosses and that alone got my interest to look further. I don't think the same could be said if the first thing I saw was the main character running around. Unfortunately, that works against people who aren't really graphically minded and don't have the money to pay for better graphics because they have to drum up interest in another way. And then when bad games using all RTP graphics flood markets, people begin to equate RTP with bad games.

 

[TomatoKing]

@Ronove Undertale graphics, specially map graphics, are made to resemble Mother/Earthbound specifically, so yeah, Undertale graphics are a result of art direction and not because of lack of resources as some might think.

 

[PlayBoyMan]

What WOULD be a good program(s) to use to make/modify assets?
I have Pyxel Edit, but I am running into problems into exporting the tiles into the engine.

 

[Caitlin]

Well, I've come to the conclusion that someone will hate on something you do from your engine, your graphics, to your music that you've chosen, and while there is something you can do help that, you can't please everyone.

1. Edit the graphics (from remixing, recoloring and radically changing the graphics in question)
2. Do not use the default system, menus, battle HUDS and maybe even, custom enemies (maybe)
3. See if you can get a custom soundtrack from bits and pieces or music packs
4. Unique man characters (if possible, do not use the default characters at all)

Just remember the line, you can please some of the people some of the time.. etc, etc...I've heard some people say that unless you program your own engine than you're not a real game developer, to the hate of Unity, Unreal Engine and RPG Maker. But I do admit that the hate for the RTP graphics has been around since the very beginning. New engine (oooh, lovely graphics), after a while of seeing the same old maps it goes to the following thought, (URGH! RTP graphics boring). It has gotten better, with people learning to edit, remix, recolor and finally adding pieces.

But the sad thing is that people judge the assets based on the thrown together game to hopefully make a quick buck, but the quality games are ones that they never see. I do think that the company has a financial benefit if they started to work with people who have awesome games to show people that there are awesome games out there. But that's just me, though. But I will say one thing, back in the day, I couldn't edit and when I began to learn ... I had to learn everything from mapping, editing, recoloring, remixing and even how to craft the perfect dungeon. I think there are quite a few people that seemingly think that they can simple throw together and game, with little effort make hundreds of dollars.

I got RPG Maker VX Ace for a dollar, some of these people I think came from that sale from Humble Bundle. I have to think that there were people who got RPG Maker for a great price and thought, "I can make hundreds off of this". Honestly, most people from the free games to the commercial projects just have a story to tell and it is a tool to use. I wish these people were the ones that people saw, but you know that's not the people they see. (=^-^=) Keep up the great work and let's make plenty of games together, even if there are always going to be people who won't even give them a try.

I say their loss.

 

[Kes]

@PlayBoyMan I personally use GIMP, it does everything that PhtoShop does and is free. This section of the site has a number of threads discussing programs for different uses.

 

[ashikai]

You know, as a comic artist the first thing you learn how to do is "cheat". When I say that I mean, you learn that rather than drawing ALL THE BRICKS you can draw like, 5 clumps of 3 bricks and you'll get a similar effect without wasting a ton of time and killing your hand.

The same can be said for game assets. I don't think there's so much a need to create 100% new custom graphics unless you feel like you really need to for your game to be presented the way you'd like. I think that there are only certain graphics you need to change/manipulate in order to create a very unique look.
Character sprites
Players will stare at the characters a lot, so custom sprites or at least different sprite bases (and non RTP portraits, even if they're still generated by a character generator) can go a really long way towards making your game look original.
Altered Menu skins and menu layouts
Menu's add a lot to the overall feel and aesthetic of a game. Mind you, I'm including all windows here, so dialog boxes, choice windows, etc should all fit together. Changing the game font is also a really huge change, even when changing from a sans-serif to another sans-serif.
Color pallet
I think the first thing I learned when I first started studying pixel art is that every game's aesthetic is based off of it's pallet. Pixel art is all about limitations, and that applies to colors!! One thing that really bothers me about RTP is that a lot of the pixel graphics are very painterly and it's therefore really difficult to swap pallets. If you CAN alter the pallets, do it. It makes a big difference in the way a game feels and it goes a long way towards making all the pieces feel like they belong together (which I think is a problem with RTP and making extensions for it).
Simple ex from my sprites:

The feel of the sprites changes, and while it's a simple change (the new set is using the proper pallet from the game), it holds a lot of weight.
Mix and match your tilesets
Sometimes people are just really used to seeing the same tiles side by side. Swapping tiles from set to set changes the context of the tiles and can make them feel fresher. If you can afford to buy some of the store assets, do so and mix them up as well. Far less people use the store assets than the base RTP and they serve as great camouflage .

Changing at least two of the above things will go a super long way towards making your game stand out, RTP or no.

(also someone posted a tutorial in this thread for isometric style game graphics... if you're not good at graphics, please don't start with isometric. You're adding a whole 'nother layer of complexity that will definitely slow your learning progress. Always start with Orthogonal.)

 

[Seacliff]

I don't find Undertale's map graphics good looking at all, however, it's clear that they were custom created and had some effort put into it.

The issue with RTP isn't that it looks bad (subjectively speaking, of course), it's that so many games made with the engine looks exactly the same. There are probably hundreds of games out there starring either Ralph or Eric, and everyone has a different take on those characters.

I have no issues with people using RTP for non-commercial purposes. It's a great way to make a game if you don't have the tools necessary to make your own game. However, I believe RPG Maker got a lot of it's infamous when a lot of RTP was being used in commercial projects.

When I judge a RPG, I look at three things: The Writing, the Gameplay, and the Presentation. Using RTP in a commercial project shows that you didn't put much effort into the presentation. Your game looks like the thousands of non-commercial RPG Maker games made in the same engine and there are definately non-comercial games that have a higher production value than your comercial RPG Maker game that uses the RTP. Given that there are a good number of good-looking free to use resources all over the community and plenty more when looking at the web store, just spending the $20 (or less if snabbed on a sale) for that DS resource pack will make your game look a lot more interesting in comparison to all the other RPG Maker games using RTP. If you didn't even put the two hours to look for resources online or the twenty dollars to make your game look unique... I'm going to have to assume just as little effort went into gameplay or writing.

Again, I only really apply this logic to commercial games. Feel free to use the RTP on any game you plan to distribute for free, even I do this. I'm just giving my theory to why the RTP is frowned upon both inside and outside the community.