Why all the hate with assets?

[Guiguimu]

Even though graphics are not all that matters, they do. And it's easy to edit some tiles with GIMP, like Kes suggested. Just making the colours different in some grass, adding flowers to trees or small things like this makes the game more original. You don't need to be an expert, but giving all of you to a game you create makes people like your games more. Even in non-commercial projects I like to do something different, just to show people that I really like what I do and I want them to like it too. Anyway, don't let the critics get to you. As long you do something you are proud of is all what matters and if you aren't, just think of it as a learning experience that will help you get better for next time.

 

[L.W. Flouisa]

Getting a little late to respond, but will jump in with one more thing.

Sometimes you got to learn the basics before scaling up. Be proud you finished something even with the defaults. I made the mistake of wanting to go all custom back when I was doing Advent Innocuous.

Story later survived in Tales From Brilliant Minds, but if I ever make it again going to focus on default mostly.

So there is that.

-- Tentacles

 

[PlayBoyMan]

I'm making changes to the assets, and constructing the maps as normal. I now have blue palm trees and red giant trees for certain spots.
I'm also going to try making to make a floor tile using pictures I took with my cameraphone.
Crude, but it might work.

 

[Fernyfer775]

While I do agree that some people are way too cynical when it comes to the usage of default engine graphics, to me, it's what the person does with said graphics. Take a look at these two pictures for example:

Spoiler: RTP1

Spoiler: RTP2

Both are using RTP, but the 2nd one is making use of lighting, tinting, and even some parallaxing/tileset editing (in the stack of boxes and whatnot). I would totally give the 2nd game a try if I saw things like lighting and graphic edits and not immediately pass up on the game because default assets were used.

 

[PlayBoyMan]

@Fernyfer775 The Second one looks like more effort went into it. I;'m on the right path.

 

[C-Unit Studios]

I wish people didn't look down on default assets. I also enjoy using them in settings where they fit.
I think a good balance would be using the default RTP in a mixture with new/edited graphics on maps where they would be useful.
I see no point in not using a good asset just because of how it is labeled.
However I do think it would be best to avoid using entirely default RTP on a single map just because of how similar it will look to other peoples.

 

[PlayBoyMan]

@C-Unit Studios
I completely agree. That was always the plan with my game, as a lot of details I want to use just aren't in the RTP like I want.
A mix of RTP and custom is a fine idea.

 

[Vinedrius]

On a fair note, there are a LOT of RM developers who put their games out on Steam with little to no polish. I can't comment on your project unless I see it myself, but the main idea of greenlight is presentation. You have to make the audience understand that your game is worthy of being on steam, and that you have put significant effort into making the game. One of the biggest drawbacks of the system is that people will judge based on what they see, and small RTP edits, community resources, tilepacks,, and custom assets mixed with RTP can go a long way into making a good impression there.

My game uses RTP, too, but when I put it on Greenlight, I got around 47% Up votes with not a single harsh comment or criticism. This surprised me a lot because I was prepared in advance for the harsh commenters and trolls to bash on it for using RTP. If you don't believe me, you can check out the link below. Same can be said for many of the other RM games that passed greenlight recently.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=760430171


One of the easiest ways to bypass the RTP hate if you don't have the funds for custom resources is to use a lot of community resources in your presentation. The RMW community is one of the best I've ever seen, and there are countless contributors who allow you to use their resources commercially without asking for anything in return. While I am yet to thank them personally, words can't describe how grateful I am to them. Use them, they are meant to be used, as long as you can follow their terms. While the Steam community may have grown accustomed to the overused no-edit RTP, they are not hardcore developers who keep track of every resource that gets posted here.
Second, you can do simple edits to your tiles to show that you've done something yourself. Simple rounded caves, walls, recolors, etc. can do a lot for you.
Finally, even if your game consists of 80% RTP, try to present the 20% which contains some degree of customization to the masses as selling point screenshots.

Hope this helps.

The project looks pretty good visually even with lots RTP stuff but one HUGE detail caught my attention in your trailer and screenshots... Those monsters belong to http://cyanyurikago.web.fc2.com/ and judging by Google translation of their ToS; they are not meant for commercial use. Some of them are not even available for personal use as they have already been used in commercial games (unless you contact them and get their approval, according to their ToS); for example: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dragon-island-blue/id532138534

 

[PlayBoyMan]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the Assets created by the community?

 

[Outlaw-77]

as has been said verbatim near a borderline insane amount, and going by personal experience from before greenlight, this isn't anything new, and people will regardless of quality tend to tear rpg maker games apart for using standard assets included with it, and as has been dscribed million fold, this is due to the oversaturation of mediocre rpgmaker games, the downside is if you're not an artist nor have talented friends this can make it difficult to get your name out since using standards assets has become a big red flag these days, and for good reasons that have been described several times within just the first page of this thread.

the upside is that to stand out you are obligated to really push yourself and learn talents like art, pixelling or get help that won't come unless you show impressive dedication and ability.

People are always gonna have some beef, like I've been doing custom graphics for my projects since 2011 but i just get different forms of critical or useless feedback, 'art looks terrible' i used to get before i'd gotten to grips with my arty...ness!, 'too weird' is the only one i really get nowadays, which is fine because i'd rather make a surreal game than dispense generic stuff, i fully undersanf what i maek may not suit errybody, and that okay

then there's people who say 'game is bad' without ever going into more detail than that, which is what i would deem 'useless feedback', it provides no substance, and for all i know, the person may not have played the game at all

that said, the RTP can still be used en masse with a couple minor tweaks to give your game a feel of its own, if you're making a dark satirical game personally modifying the tilesets and adjusting the saturation and brightness can do wonders for making it feel less 'generic rpg maker title' despite changing barely anything.

 

[PlayBoyMan]

@Outlaw-77
Don't worry - I heard you the first time.
I'm doing all that and more. And I have to say that I'm learning tons of tricks and honing/crafting my art skills. Pixel Art is a time-consuming process and skill to acquire, but I'm learning so much as I go, and I'm all smiles.

I also want to take this moment to thank all of you for your input and insight on this topic. You've all had so much to say on this, and I appreciate it beyond words.

 

[RishigangiX]

The project looks pretty good visually even with lots RTP stuff but one HUGE detail caught my attention in your trailer and screenshots... Those monsters belong to http://cyanyurikago.web.fc2.com/ and judging by Google translation of their ToS; they are not meant for commercial use. Some of them are not even available for personal use as they have already been used in commercial games (unless you contact them and get their approval, according to their ToS); for example: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dragon-island-blue/id532138534

This is one the primary reasons why I wouldn't trust Google Translate in the first place.
After reading their Japanese TOS, I came to understand that the resources can be used for commercial games as long as they are personal/small scale products, and not products made by medium/large companies. As the Japanese description is still vague to an extent (What if I have a OPC? Is it okay if it is made by a team? etc.), I mailed them just be sure, and they said that my understanding was correct.

 

[Kes]

Can anyone point me in the direction of the Assets created by the community?

There is a huge section of the forum, immediately below the Game Development section that this thread is posted in, called 'Resources'.

 

[Outlaw-77]

@Outlaw-77
Don't worry - I heard you the first time.

But.... this is the first response I make in the thread? :\

I'm doing all that and more. And I have to say that I'm learning tons of tricks and honing/crafting my art skills. Pixel Art is a time-consuming process and skill to acquire, but I'm learning so much as I go, and I'm all smiles.

I also want to take this moment to thank all of you for your input and insight on this topic. You've all had so much to say on this, and I appreciate it beyond words.

Glad to hear you're learning and we're glad to help! (So long as we've had our coffee or choco-mulk)

 

[mogwai]

The RTP have an ancient Egyptian art rule (I can't remember what it was called in art history; not feeling confident about what I found on Wiki) that states this is an RPG graphic and this is what it looks like. It gets its beauty and power by conformity and numbers. Even if 50,000 independent games are online right now with those exact same graphics, those graphics look good, dude. Many people want that style for their own independent RPGs, but they can't come close. Those graphics are made by professional artists. Those Steam guys probably criticize you because they are jealous.

 

[TomatoKing]

They may look good, but after seeing them 50,000 times most people would take ms paint graphics made by a 8 year old as a breath of fresh air.

 

[OwMeEye]

Assets are ok, but they tend to be a bit lacking, and it's nice when there's some personal flavor to the art. Rpg maker is pretty rigid in how creative you can be with the build-in assets. But, if someone is a really good mapper, then he can probably make something nice out of the default assets. And, if someone is a great writer, he can make a very engaging game on default assets. But, if someone is a great mapper and writer, then others may feel inspired to supply custom assets which will be better than the default ones ^_^

 

[Tuomo L]

I just put my Game up on Steam Greenlight, and while It's getting up votes, it's also getting a heavy share of harsh criticism. People telling me it's not something they are interested in buying, even if I had the option, and one person calling me 'lazy' for using Assets, and saying that I've never tried to make graphics of my own, which isn't true - I've been trying to make custom graphics for the longest time, and I suck at it. I'm not even joking or selling myself short on this.

So I ask - why all the hate for a game that no one hasn't tried out? And yes, there is a demo.

Bad first impressions. You see same graphics in more than 5 games and they kinda wear out their novelty, no matter how much you try and push a backstory that THIS blonde guy is totally different than the last blonde guy. Backgrounds aren't as big of a deal but other assets like that do stand out.

How much custom content is in your game? What price is your game going to be?


Also those monsters in the screenshots, you can't use them legally in your commercial game. You're violating their TOS.


I mean, you do have a business when releasing your game, right?

 

[PlayBoyMan]

@Tuomo L
At this rate, I might as well just pull the damn game altogether.
Every time I go to work on it, there is either someone telling me what's more wrong with it, more things have to be added, and now I'm violating TOS using assets that come with the game? Why include them in the first place if I can't use them?

I just can't win.

I'm spending more time hearing people complain about the game, and no one is even giving it half-a-chance. I've spent 2 years working on this game, spending time learning how to use the engine, and design the game at the same time, and now it just feels like no one will ever give it look, no matter what changes I make to it.

 

[Kes]

@PlayBoyMan I couldn't find the screenshot that was being referred to, but if you are using assets that came with the game, then of course you can use them in a commercial game. Indeed, if people couldn't, then there would be reason to have this thread at all, because potential players would not have seen them to complain about.