Why don't you sell your game? How can I change your mind?

[Touchfuzzy]

I'm not sure who all you contacted, but if you can get things for 1/10th the price that some of the artist I know charge, the pixel artists outside of RM you are talking to are charging almost nothing.

I mean, some of the people I know through the site charge such a small amount I've considered commissioning some stuff for NONcommercial projects. The only thing stopping me is my inability to remember to finish anything.

 

[Mako]

I mean, some of the people I know through the site charge such a small amount I've considered commissioning some stuff for NONcommercial projects. The only thing stopping me is my inability to remember to finish anything.

Keyword in that statement being some... I'd rather not give away their pricing here, but outside RM you can get a whole city done in pixel art for around cheaper then artists sell a mostly complete RTP. Now the 10x cheaper doesn't apply to some artists around here. But considering an entire RTP worth of tiles, in most cases contains a lot of redundant tiles I'd say it's worth looking into it.

Could you PM me some names when you get some time fuzzy? I'd love to ask some more folks. Hopefully they are not the ones I already asked....

Again these are just my findings, perhaps another will have better luck. Or I'm proven wrong. I hope I am..

 

[Indinera]

Actually I'd convince you otherwise.

I'm not her but I'm pretty sure you cannot do that. :lol:

The people really monetizing and making money are the people selling the idea that you could make a commercial game.

I'm not sure I get this. What do you mean?

 

[Mako]

I'm not her but I'm pretty sure you cannot do that. :lol:

Who knows... it's kinda hard over the Internets to convince anyone of anything. I just let people know my findings, take it for what it's worth. But the topic title suggests 'How can I change your mind?" and I'm all ears.. *Pulls up chair.

I'm not sure I get this. What do you mean?

I'm not sure I can explain it any more plainly then that. =/

 

[Indinera]

Alright, so let me quote it again...

The people really monetizing and making money are the people selling the idea that you could make a commercial game.

:huh:

There are several commercial RM devs out there. Not selling ideas but... games.

 

[Helladen]

You don't understand some people don't want to sell games solely because of the restrictions it has on their resources.

To be honest, selling things related to your product could be much more rewarding than selling a commercial product itself, because you can make a much more refined product if you don't go commercial. This is more relating to what systems you want and things like that. If artists and scripters offered ways to use their resources in commercial products for a small fraction of what it is worth, it may be different, but right now as it stands this isn't the case.

 

[Indinera]

You don't understand some people don't want to sell games solely because of the restrictions it has on their resources.

And that's totally fine.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I'd rather not give away their pricing here, but outside RM you can get a whole city done in pixel art for around cheaper then artists sell a mostly complete RTP.

How big of a city? How much detail? To match the work of a full tileset, you would need something like a 50 tile by 50 tile pixel city, with NO REPETITION of tiles in the entire map.

Remember that a full tileset A1-A5, B-E is over 2,000 tiles worth of work. (Yes, some of those aren't individual tiles, but autotile components, but trust me, autotile components are a ***** to work with).

Its not really comparable to a full tileset honestly. No dealing with autotiles for instance, which take tons of time. I think that your problem might lie more with the fact that you don't understand the amount of work that goes into making a full tileset than that people are charging too much.

Also, the people in this thread that are asking why you don't go commercial are... actually commercial devs that make money off this.

 

[Genii Benedict]

(Yes, some of those aren't individual tiles, but autotile components, but trust me, autotile components are a ***** to work with).

If you need help with autotiles, you could read this! It's extremely helpful, and could help to change your mind.

GB

 

[Touchfuzzy]

If you need help with autotiles, you could read this! It's extremely helpful, and could help to change your mind.

GB

GB, I wrote that :B

 

[Genii Benedict]

GB, I wrote that :B

Hence the winky in my post. (Many apologies for the threadjack, but you can never have too much of a great thing. That article should be 'required reading'.)

Back on topic, this thread is very, very informative for anyone interested in going down the 'commercial path'. As I have personally run more than a few of my own tech companies over my 25 years in the industry, I would definitely recommend everybody to read up on as much local information as possible, as it is not as daunting task as one would first think!

That being said, I am certainly learning new things every day on the forums, especially when it comes to credits and having the appropriate agreements in place.

GB

 

[Mako]

Remember that a full tileset A1-A5, B-E is over 2,000 tiles worth of work. (Yes, some of those aren't individual tiles, but autotile components, but trust me, autotile components are a ***** to work with).

Actually there is only 1571 tiles A1-5,B-D as most artists don't count E that I've come across. But even if you were to count that, it would only bring the figure up to 1827. Another interesting note is there is 1235 unique tiles that are not part of the auto tile effect. That figure is also vastly reduced down to just how many ground, roof, and animation tiles you need in one city.

with that said a 'city' involves the whole city not just one map found in that city.... but I see where you are going with this. it's not really comparable if I hire a freelance artist to draw me a city in pixel art and splice that up into blocks. Even though you can achieve the same effect, tile sets go a bit more ways.

Also, the people in this thread that are asking why you don't go commercial are... actually commercial devs that make money off this.

That's comes down to a difference of who you know. People are much more willing to offer a staff member free help, or a reduced price, I've seen it.Example: In another place I asked this guy if I could pay him to make a script quite a long time ago. He quoted me a price and said he will think about it. Turns out some months later not only was he giving admin help, he provided the script of what I was essentially asking for for nothing. When confronted in IRC he said well "he's the boss."

Point being the market today seems very bleak for the commercial dev that is not a staff member. Heck most people actually think you guys are Enterbrain. Question is: Who isn't going to help? I've hit up everyone who has a page setup for commission work. most/all of them are in-fact to busy working on other projects. But as I said, I'm still scouring the RM community's its very hard to even get a reply on prices. =/ Perhaps cause it's summer and none wan't to work, even if it's for $$.

 

[Indinera]

People have made commercial games LONG before this forum went live and a staff was created. Also, you don't HAVE to make everything original and pay for every resource to make a game and turn a profit. Use the RTP wisely and you're off a good start!

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Actually there is only 1571 tiles A1-5,B-D as most artists don't count E that I've come across. But even if you were to count that, it would only bring the figure up to 1827. Another interesting note is there is 1235 unique tiles that are not part of the auto tile effect. That figure is also vastly reduced down to just how many ground, roof, and animation tiles you need in one city.

Except the whole 1235 unique tiles is a crap way of looking at it. I know plenty of tileset artists who would find doing 6 TileB autotiles less of a pain in the ass than doing 1 ceiling autotile.

 

[Mako]

People have made commercial games MUCH before this forum went live and a staff was created.

I did say this happened awhile ago. On another forum...

. Also, you don't HAVE to make everything original

Indeed. But I can try.

Except the whole 1235 unique tiles is a crap way of looking at it.

I see... well I didn't know there was a 'crap' way of looking at tiles.

I know plenty of tileset artists who would find doing 6 TileB autotiles less of a pain in the ass than doing 1 ceiling autotile.

Actually auto tiles are the only thing I can do. I don't consider them hard myself, but they are essentially 6 tiles. So 6 times more work.... to an extent.

 

[Indinera]

I did say this happened awhile ago. On another forum...

Erm, I absolutely do not know what you are talking about. :huh:

Indeed. But I can try.

Of course.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Actually auto tiles are the only thing I can do. I don't consider them hard myself, but they are essentially 6 tiles. So 6 times more work.... to an extent.

Actually its more accurate to view them as 24 16x16 tiles. That all have to be able to match up correctly with all the other tiles they will sit next to. And if you can make an autotile, you should be able to make any other type of tile, its not like they take less artistic skill.

Or maybe you mean that you can format an autotile. Well, yeah, most people can after its explained to them. Doesn't make it less of a PITA to do all the checking on them.

But even you admit that its like doing 6 tiles at the least, so perhaps you'll realize that looking at them as 1 tile when calculating how many are being made is silly.

 

[Necromus]

I really wonder how much copies are actually sold of those games, i really do

 

[Shaz]

@Mako, Please don't judge US on what happens on other forums. WE are not OTHER forums.

Yes, I'm a mod, but only in the commercial forums. No, I don't make ANY money by encouraging people to go commercial. In fact, I am encouraging people to become my competition, so the more successful I am here, the greater the risk that I will make LESS money! No, people DON'T make stuff for me for free. If you look around, you'll see I've posted two threads asking for sprites and faces for my game, telling people to set their own price. Know how many offers I got? NONE! So that kinda blows your "people will do it for free for staff" theory out of the water.

The prices people ask for things on here is WAY below what someone outside of the RM community would charge. You can ask ANY of the commercial devs here and they will agree with this. If you find the prices here are too high and you can get them lower elsewhere, go for it. But I'd question WHY they're so low - how long has this person been doing it? Are they good? Are they reliable or will you be on your own after the first couple of weeks?

Yes, it's expensive getting art done for a game. Nobody is denying that. But do you HAVE to have all custom art for your first game?

LOL @Necromus - really? Are you serious? Enough copies that the developers have been able to leave their day jobs and make games full time. Enough that some of them have been able to hire other staff to make more games. Aveyond was made more than 5 years ago, and it still generates a respectable income each month. I'm not going to quote any figures because it's Amanda's income, not mine, but it's nothing to scoff at.

 

[Indinera]

I really wonder how much copies are actually sold of those games, i really do

Make one, see for yourself. Straightforward solution.

But do you HAVE to have all custom art for your first game?

That's really the question I've kept asking.