Why is 'below' priority the default?

Misery

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I seriously can't imagine a scenario when I'd need it... on the other hand 'same' is constantly needed... but the geniuses just needed to make people constantly have to switch it over... so much waste of time...
 

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If you give your event an image (like a character) it automatically changes to "same".

So I don't understand the complaint.

Edit: ninja'd
 

Misery

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But most are tiles... characters with faces are used, but the majority of things one can interact with in a game are the background props.
 

Andar

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but that is exactly why it stays below as a default for tiles - you interact with tiles by stepping on them
changing priority to same also changes the interaction point to the side, and that is what is usually the case for doors, people, crystals and all the other options of sprites.
 

Misery

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But most aren't passable... wood etc... doors usually don't need anything to be said to be passed from, I'm thinking more of items in a room that have internal monologues.
 

Trihan

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But most aren't passable... wood etc... doors usually don't need anything to be said to be passed from, I'm thinking more of items in a room that have internal monologues.
Sounds like you're expecting the default for the engine to be something that caters specifically to what you use events for, rather than the logical priorities for them in general.
 

ATT_Turan

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I seriously can't imagine a scenario when I'd need it... on the other hand 'same' is constantly needed... but the geniuses just needed to make people constantly have to switch it over... so much waste of time...
You have a lot of not entirely logical complaints, and you keep phrasing them in pretty impolite ways (your sarcastic "geniuses" about the software programmers is rude).

But most aren't passable... wood etc... doors usually don't need anything to be said to be passed from, I'm thinking more of items in a room that have internal monologues.
So those items will have whatever passability set by the tileset, and it doesn't matter what the event is.

Have you done some tutorials for MV? Because any tutorial on events is absolutely going to cover things like transfers through doorways/in and out of towns...tiles you step on to start cutscenes...events you have just sitting on your map to provide cutscene or autorun functionality...with the exception of towns, where I want a bunch of wandering NPCs, I use invisible, "below character" events much more than I do stuff with graphics.

I don't want to come off as mean-spirited, but this is the third or fourth thread you've started within the span of two days that's just complaining about RPG Maker functionality (correctly or not). You're not putting them in the forum for user feedback to suggest a change, you're not asking a question for help, you're just complaining to a forum full of people who like the software enough to use it.

What's the point? I kindly suggest you either take some time to learn how to use it by following a few tutorial series, or try a different piece of software that acts more the way you want it to. There are other options. Spamming the forum with complaints just seems like a waste of time.
 

Htlaets

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But most aren't passable... wood etc... doors usually don't need anything to be said to be passed from, I'm thinking more of items in a room that have internal monologues.
Look, it's perfectly fine to not know things, to ask questions about things, but it's an incredibly bad look when you're making complaints about things when you don't even understand how they function. Also, it might help to try to google these things before making a thread so you can have a baseline understanding at minimum.

It seems that your problem is that you don't seem to understand why doors are different among other things. Below is the default for blank events because... defaulting to "same as characters" would cause all sorts of problems with cutscene and other on-map background events.

Below is the default for tiles because it passes the passibility information from the tileset to the event when it's set to below. If your next statement is "Why would you use a below tile for an event!? That makes no sense!" then that's just a failure of imagination on your part. What if you want a bridge to appear after a switch is pulled? What if you want a wall to disappear into a passable bunch of flooring when a secret passage is revealed? What if you have a room that's customizable and some of the parts that are customizable are above or below tiles, but also things that are the same? In this case a below tile that passes along information is perfect, especially since many use cases that involve using tiles as an object usually involve bunch of events.

There are a ton of situations where this applies.

Now, you should think to yourself: why does it default to same for a door? Because you're selecting a sprite not a tileset, and there's no information for the sprite to pass along, so it's easier to assume that you'd want a sprited event to be "same as".

Also, you seem to be confused thinking that the only time you should use a "sprite" rather than a tile is when you're making an NPC event, when that's not the case. You can use sprites for objects as well.
 
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Misery

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How is below logical? I can't find a common usage for it, except maybe switches in dungeons...

And doors, yes, but there's usually only a single, maybe couple of exits in every town... as opposed to tens, if not hundreds of props. But, sure, Turan, I'll put it on my profile next time...

I guess what it comes down to is people's subjective priorities... I happen to need monologues more than cutscenes (I have those, but at a much lesser quantity)... and tend to focus more on towns than dungeons (and even then I intend to make dungeons into mini-towns with lots of objects to interact with).

I think, ideally, there's an option to choose the default... everyone then would be satisfied...
 
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Htlaets

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@Seyfert Why do you suppose doors default to "same as character"? Do you think that the program knows you're selecting a door?
 

Misery

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Because they can't be climbed upon? Makes sense for doors, but defaulting to below for background items assumes the player doesn't need to interact with them and they're just there for visual purposes...
 

Milennin

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Because they can't be climbed upon? Makes sense for doors, but defaulting to below for background items assumes the player doesn't need to interact with them and they're just there for visual purposes...
Or they could be events that are auto-run or parallel, or when stepped on by the player character, or simply act as a NPC movement barrier without getting in the way of the player. The amount of events I use that are set to "below characters" far exceeds the number of events that are on the same layer.
Most events that are set to be on the same layer as the player character will use a graphic, which changes their layer priority automatically when set to have a graphic.
 

Misery

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Tiles are often sufficient, though... I'm not even using images for some people, so I doubt I'd need them for fridges, baths, sofas, books, chairs... (and selecting images takes longer than changing priorities...)
 

Trihan

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Tiles are often sufficient, though... I'm not even using images for some people, so I doubt I'd need them for fridges, baths, sofas, books, chairs... (and selecting images takes longer than changing priorities...)
Does switching from below to same level really take so much time, effort and exponentially increased development overhead that it will be materially detrimental to your project?
 

Misery

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Well, one doesn't, but when I'd like almost every object to be interactable... it's just that I enjoyed finding stuff from items so much while I played games... I literally developed a habit of interacting with every object in sight... and I kind of want to replicate that for my game, regardless of whether or not people care about random items or words...
 

ATT_Turan

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How is below logical? I can't find a common usage for it, except maybe switched in dungeons...
I literally provided 4 common usages, just off the top of my head. Do you honestly never walk out of a town to an overworld map? And walk onto a map symbol to enter a town or dungeon?
I happen to need monologues more than cutscenes
There's not a mechanical difference. A monologue is just a cutscene where all the dialogue is coming from one character. You still need some way to initiate it - most games do not rely on you interacting with an item to progress every item of the plot, it is extremely common for conversations (or monologues, if you like) to start on their own when you walk to a certain place. The way you would trigger that is with an event that's beneath character priority on the map.
I think, ideally, there's an option to choose the default... everyone then would be satisfied...
That's not very plausible. You're now asking the developers of an $80 piece of software to guess what specific drop-down menus on what specific pages users might want to customize, and provide an extensive menu in the editor to allow that. What software have you ever used that allows that? I can do it in Cubase and, to some extent, in Microsoft Word. Those both cost several times what MV does, and are made by much larger programming teams.

Is it that time-consuming on your part to just create an event when you make a new map, stick it in the corner, and make it at player level? Then anything else you want, instead of double-clicking to make a new event, you just copy and paste that one, proceed to fill in the details, the priority is already set for you.
 

Htlaets

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Because they can't be climbed upon? Makes sense for doors, but defaulting to below for background items assumes the player doesn't need to interact with them and they're just there for visual purposes...
Now I'm confused as to the extent of your misunderstanding.

Doors default to "same as characters" unless you're using a tile for the sprite. ANY event that you use a sprite instead of a tile for will default to "same as characters" not "below". The game doesn't know the difference between a door spritesheet and actor1's spritesheet, that's not how any of this works. The only thing the defaults understand is whether you're selecting a tile, a sprite, or nothing, there is not a separate consideration for doors or "items".

Either way, if your workflow has you putting tons of tile-events that need to be same as character priority on the map, then the most efficient way to do that workflow is to copy and paste a source tile event that's already same-as, since then it's easier to pick a tile.
 
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Trihan

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I was about to suggest the same thing. Create a same-level event you can paste when you need one.
 

Misery

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Yeah, I guess copying is the easier way to do this... but I'm still not sure how autorun events (if below) are somehow more common than same level, action events (after all, I wouldn't want to force all these random words on the player)... even treasures in dungeons are usually like that. And, I'm not sure what's cost got to do with the possible addition of one extra option... and yeah, tiles are considered separately, but they shouldn't be just visual...
 

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