Why is 'below' priority the default?

Trihan

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Yeah, I guess copying is the easier way to do this... but I'm still not sure how autorun events (if below) are somehow more common than same level, action events (after all, I wouldn't want to force all these random words on the player)... even treasures in dungeons are usually like that. And, I'm not sure what's cost got to do with the possible addition of one extra option... and yeah, tiles are considered separately, but they shouldn't be just visual...
Treasures in dungeons are usually given sprites from the !Chest graphic, which automatically sets them to same level. As it does with literally any graphic you give an event that isn't from Tileset B or C.
 

Misery

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Right, but what I was trying to say is that I think the majority of events are on the same level... including dungeons, possibly...
 

Htlaets

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Copying would be the fastest way to do what you describe even if the game had an option to default to same as, because, otherwise, you'd have to go to the bottom of the image list to select your tilesets anyway. Chests are spritesheets like Trihan says, so they default to same-as.

On top of all this, it's faster to have transparent same-as events for tile objects, since drawing a tileset is faster than hunting and pecking for an image from your tileset for an event, anyway.
Right, but what I was trying to say is that I think the majority of events are on the same level... including dungeons, possibly...
When it comes to the things that default to below priority, you'd be wrong for my game. And for most. Perhaps when you understand how to control autorun and parallel events you'd understand. The things I put on same-as priority tend to default to same-as in the first place.
 

Trihan

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Right, but what I was trying to say is that I think the majority of events are on the same level... including dungeons, possibly...
What you need to understand is that the default is not based on what the event *might be*; it's based on the fact that by default the event has no graphic, and if you have an event with no graphic it's highly likely it's going to be one that's activated by stepping on it. The defaults are complementary with each other.
 

ATT_Turan

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I'm still not sure how autorun events (if below) are somehow more common than same level, action events
I don't understand this misconception that below character necessitates autorun. No one has said that autorun events are more common.

And, I'm not sure what's cost got to do with the possible addition of one extra option
Again, that's narrow-minded to what you specifically want. Do you really think it makes sense to say "We're going to allow users to customize the default option...for this one specific thing"? Of course not. If you make your UI customizable, you do it for as many places as you can, otherwise you have some percentage of the userbase whining that you didn't allow it for the one thing they really wanted.

Right, but what I was trying to say is that I think the majority of events are on the same level... including dungeons, possibly...
Every one of my dungeons has:
- A little conversation that happens before you jump into the boss battle
- At least one if not several bits of dialogue/story exposition
- At least one if not several exits to go to the next floor, previous floor, out of the dungeon...

All of that is done with events that have no graphic and are beneath the player.
 

Misery

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Each game has a different focus, sure, which is why options for defaults could be useful (better something, than nothing)...

And I guess one can assume that grass can be stepped on... but there's many other background items that aren't, too...
 

Trihan

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Each game has a different focus, sure, which is why options for defaults could be useful (better something, than nothing)...

And I guess one can assume that grass can be stepped on... but there's many other background items that aren't, too...
Right, but having a little bit of flavour dialogue for *every single item on a map* is not the norm. It's a wonderful thing to add to your game, but you have to accept that the engine simply wasn't built to default for it because it's not something many developers do. If the single click it takes to facilitate that is too much for you, simply don't incorporate that into your game. If you want the feature, you need to do the work for it. It's that simple.
 

Misery

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Two clicks! But the point is when many are needed... anyway, I'll copy them from now on... but also, it should kind of be the norm... in the end everyone has varying levels of this, but RPGs should be fundamentally about interacting with objects and people, otherwise they're simply other types of genres which generally don't have those elements...
 

Trihan

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Two clicks! But the point is when many are needed... anyway, I'll copy them from now on... but also, it should kind of be the norm... in the end everyone has varying levels of this, but RPGs should be fundamentally about interacting with objects and people, otherwise they're simply other types of genres which generally don't have those elements...
RPGs are fundamentally about interacting with objects and people. But most of your events will usually use graphics that come from character sets, which set them to same level anyway. People tend to place the tileset B and C tiles as tiles without having them interactable. It's laudable that you're breaking the mould on that, but with that ambition comes the necessity of a few extra clicks because the developers of MZ didn't foresee that you'd be blazing a trail of innovation here.
 

ATT_Turan

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RPGs should be fundamentally about interacting with objects and people
And, one more time, as soon as you give an event the graphic of an object or person it changes the passability for you. So those two clicks don't exist! You're doing all this haranguing over a very niche scenario that you've created for yourself.
 

Htlaets

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And, one more time, as soon as you give an event the graphic of an object or person it changes the passability for you. So those two clicks don't exist! You're doing all this haranguing over a very niche scenario that you've created for yourself.
To be clear, the OP's beef seems to be that it stays below for tileset events, which, yeah, I've occasionally forgotten that it behaves that way even for impassable events (which means you can't interact with an object that came from a tileset even if it's impassable unless you switch it to same-as). But, yeah, it's not that big of a deal to just copy and paste a transparent same-as event over tiles with whatever dialogue you have for that specific use-case, and, in fact, would be the fastest way to work with a large number of events that work this way even if the tileseted graphics defaulted to same as.
 
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Milennin

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I also make most of my objects interactable, but I just copy-paste those events. I never saw it as an issue.
 

Trihan

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The only time I ever specifically use a tileset graphic for an event is when it's one you can pick up/remove/destroy.
 

TheoAllen

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You have been given an explanation of why the default setting is below priority.

If you would like to give the editor feedback and suggestion (about adding what would be the default setting). Then MZ feedback forum would be more fit.

I don't disagree with your set up your own default setting suggestion, but keep pushing the point that it should have been an option is useless here. We all know we all deal with that situation. We have been suggesting using a template event for that. Yes, we know each game also has different needs and mechanics. But that is currently how the editor works. If you need that to be changed, then MZ feedback it is. None of us are the developer of the software.

But to be completely honest, I don't think they will add an option to change "your default setting".
 

ATT_Turan

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To be clear, the OP's beef seems to be...
I'm aware. But his post I quoted made it sound like RPGs are supposed to be all about interacting with characters and objects, and RPG Maker makes no attempt to do that - when it does in a very sane way. I did address his beef in the latter part of my post (which sounds weird to type).
 

HexMozart88

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I'm really not understanding the issue here. You're saying it's two clicks to change the default, but it's also two clicks to just switch it over to Same as Chars. Just because YOU don't do something doesn't mean no one does.
 

Misery

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Default can't be changed at all.
 

Andar

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Default can't be changed at all.
that is why it is called "Default".

Perhaps you should think about it this way:

1)
That behaviour has been the same for about twenty years of RPG-Makers. In the same time the RPG-Makers have slowly improved as to suggestions given from the community - but this is the very first time that I ever have heard of someone suggesting this change. Which indicates that the current behaviour is good for everyone else.
2)
In the maps I created I never even bother to check the priority when making the map, because in 95% of all cases the priority is set exactly as I want it automatically. And the fact that no one else ever suggested a change in the dozen years I have been part of the community suggests that it is the same for many other people.
3)
in several of the topic where you asked for help with problems it became obvious that the problems were caused by you stumbling around the program without taking time working through the tutorials to learn how the program is supposed to be used.
Yes, working through the tutorials will take weeks - but if you expect to make a game, that work will occupy you for years, so taking a few weeks to get it right should not be a problem.


And I think this topic is also a variant of point 3 - you only have problems with the current default because you have not bothered to learn how the mapping is supposed to be done.
And that most likely resulted in you using sub-optimal or wrong methods of mapping which increase the problems exactly because the defaults are optimized for a different working style.

But since the supposed working style has enabled thousands of developers over dozens of years to create successfull games (both free and commercial), what do you think is more likely the better working style?
The one followed by thousands of users successfully, or the one you alone came up with while not following the tutorials provided?
 

Misery

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If we should, though, compare it to e.g. YouTube uploading... defaults can be set to public/unlisted/private... imagine if it was always one or another... people upload for a variety of reasons, so it'd be annoying for someone who only wanted a selected few to see their videos to always have to change it from public or vice versa...
 

Trihan

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Yes, let's compare things to other things that are in no way related to the first thing, that will surely get your point across. :p

Look, it's not that we don't get what you're saying. We *do*. But your choices are to either accept it as it is, or put a suggestion in to change it. No amount of appealing to us is going to make it work differently from the way it does. Nobody else but you seems to have the burning need for this feature.

Being able to change defaults would also clash in interesting ways with how it works currently; take for example the fact that setting a non-tileset graphic for an event causes it to automatically become same level. If you've set the default to lower than characters, would that just no longer happen?

And now you've just given yourself more work to do in the other direction. If every event defaulted to same level as characters like you want, you'd still have to manually switch every single event in your game that activates on being stepped on, which includes the links between your maps.
 

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