Why is the RPG Maker name so hated?

[mlogan]

Arin, I apologize for calling you "she" - I go by avatar when I have nothing else to go by. Sorry for that.

To everyone else - I don't think it needs to get to such a point of personal attack. When I asked him why was he here, it was an honest question. I presume that people are here because they enjoy using RPGM. So it baffles me a bit when a person comes here and bashes it (and other users) so vehemently, especially a more established member of the community.

 

[Arin]

I really honestly don't hate it. Nor do I really love it. But I can understand why people would hate it/love it and like to draw comparisons to that.

The thing surrounding RPG Maker is the fact that: if you don't want to spend time on it, then fine, make your game and don't think about being serious, but if you put forth the effort it takes to make an actual good game like "To the Moon", or "Legionwood", or any other good, noteworthy RPG, then you should strive for that success, too.

One human does not dictate how good a program is.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out that maybe I was a bit abrasive and blunt in my last post. After thinking about it, there's probably stuff you can do in Ruby that you can't do with C or Java, plus with the fact it's easier to pick up and learn puts it a cut above the rest.

Also my sexuality preferences/gender is off-topic, I'd just like to point out.

EDIT 2: Also lul "established member" when I really haven't done anything at all.

EDIT 3: Also the reason I'm here, Logan, is more or less to stalk the Let's Play forum. I enjoy watching other people's creations being showcased by another person rather than working on my own creations. Kind of scary, really.

 

[Shion Kreth]

This thread is basically a bunch of bigoted, generalizing idiots already stating the obvious.

And RPG Maker is terrible. It's a good stepping stone towards making better-quality games, but if the best "quality" game that you can put out is something like Star-Stealing Prince, Legionwood, or any other famous RM games, then of the real-world, you're just slightly below average. Most people would rather spend $60 on something with limited functionality than something that costs $1500 that allows you to do anything, mostly because people want things handed to them on a silver platter. That's just the way the world works.

I hate the RTP. I absolutely despise the RTP. But I still use it as placeholders because it's there for me to, you guessed it, placehold something. That's ALL it's supposed to do.

Also bugs are in every game. You have lockups on your consoles all of the time because something didn't initialize right or an improper rule was broken. Why do you have to say that for RPG Maker?

RPG Maker has a pretty small programming language with certainly a lot of functions, but, when compared to something like C or Java, makes Ruby look like an ant in comparison to a lion.

Also, find me ONE review of "To the Moon" that says it was a **** game, because I haven't found it yet. "To the Moon" is not even supposed to be an RPG in it's own right; it's more of a Visual Novel, which goes to show the power of the RPG Maker Engine.

Well good to see you conforming to the generalization at least.  

I personally think it's just a matter of prejudice(defined as: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience), Or simply that some people don't like old school style rpgs. As pretty much all sprite based rpgs tend to get called 'rpgmaker games' even if they're not I feel both those rationales are validated.

People also don't seem to understand how the average indie studio operates, and think that they can produce a triple A title netting millions of dollars without investing millions of dollars, for some reason. Personally I've bought tons of rtp games, and will continue to do so if while playing the demo I'm having fun; it ultimately just boils down to a matter of elitism we know some people will always subscribe to no matter how irrelevant or erroneous their views are.

 

[The Forgotten]

RPG Maker's problem is that for every 1 "amazing game", there are 20+ games that make you want to punch the developer square in the nose, or for the less violent, wipe their hard drive.

 

[Ratty524]

RPG Maker's problem is that for every 1 "amazing game", there are 20+ games that make you want to punch the developer square in the nose, or for the less violent, wipe their hard drive.

Oh ****. I guess I didn't help the issue at all as of late.

 

[RyokuHasu]

If you pour enough scripting and work into RPG maker you can recreate Agarest War or even some of the older Final Fantasy titles. Does that mean anyone will? probably not. Really, there is no reason to complain about an Engine that you can expand and improve upon. So what If it's in Ruby, you can recreate FF7 almost entirely if you try hard enough. As Galenmereth said it's not the engine, it's the team and ability. If you are good at making story and design, but suck at making graphics and scripting then you might want a team, it will make all the difference.

Personally I love the RTP, as long as it's not getting used in a traditional fashion.

There are some people that just SUCK at making games, you can't deny it they have no talent, they don't want to learn any skills, nor do they want any help. They just want to dive head first into the brick of concrete that is game design and try to come out ahead. This leads to steaming piles of crap being released, burring the good stuff under a mountain of feces.

 

[jajunk]

Well, i never really use another game engine beside RPG Maker and Game Maker. So i don't know if it's bad or not.

But one thing for sure, RPG Maker is not limited for just creating RPG. If you can script well enough, you can make a platform game in RPG Maker ! And there is a script that let you make STG in RPG Maker. Even i created a short movie for my assignment with RPG Maker ! And everyone love it ! 

And RPG Maker it's easy to use. Really easy. Anything can be done through eventing. Well, almost anything. If you want some advanced feature you can make it by scripting your way out. And if you can't script, there are plenty of RGSS script in the internet.

So personally, i think RPG Maker have it's own potential.

There's nothing like a bad RTP. There are just a bad or stupid developer. If you are a good developer, people will love your game. Even if it uses RTP.

And that's what i think.

 

[Chaneque]

I love the RTP when it's used well, but sadly just so many games use the RTP badly and have bad mapping and a bad-looking game. I would be fine buying a game with well-used RTP, honestly.

 

[Ashton]

Here's my $0.02 - 

Why reinvent the wheal? if I need something simple and common like a treasure chest, I see no reason not to use the built-in graphics. (character Sprites are a different matter).  There is a time and a apace for everything. Would it be better to make 100% original graphics? absolutely. However some of us lack much talent in the graphics department and this keeps us from having to commission the basics.

Commercial games NEED to have original graphics at least for all major events and characters (again, why remake what you already have just to claim it's original? you can spend that time on the game and make it that much better!) But I think the content can be used properly and save a lot of time and money.

 

[Ratty524]

Here's my $0.02 - 


Why reinvent the wheal? if I need something simple and common like a treasure chest, I see no reason not to use the built-in graphics.

*wheel, and you are seriously satisfied with high-saturated, blurry lame-chests rather than something that actually fits the tone and atmosphere you want your game to have?

 

[nio kasgami]

In my own opinion I hate people who say rpg maker is horrible because rpg maker is a powerfull tool who the main Goal is for the fun and it HELP to LEARN how to develloppe a game  and it make him simple to complex for kid's to expert user

like a exemple My young sister use this and enjoy and she have only 10 years old so I don't saw the point to gave her a 1000$ engine she is to much young for that and I guess a 1000$ will make a lot more of hater because 1000$ engine  include 1000$ option and complexity so it remove the fun 

and rpg maker inferior to the other engine? gosh people did  saw some game make in rpg maker ? like A little world make by the famous Enu? it was one of the most devellopped game in all rpg maker.

ruby inferior to other language? huh no it only different and more simple for read by the human and people have to know a lot of japanese game use the ruby today because ruby was create by yukihiro matsumoto a japanese who wanted to make the programming more easy to use.

in the case the rtp have a lack of ressource I admit but the main character are atractive and we have a lot of people here who try to make the rtp atractive like mlogan who work on a western asset 

myself I love the rtp character and most the cat girl (mrrn <3)

I just don't like the style of the regular faceset so for make more atractive I put so much effort for recreate all the faceset and add more stuff like (new haircut why not?) 

so for me Rpg maker is the best experience in my life I don't understand why people hate them and I can't  wait  the next rpg maker!

and for me between a 1000$ game engine who are hell hard to use and rpg maker who are simple to use...I will prefer rpg maker!

and rpg maker was made for be fun we have supposed to have fun when we making game not feel like it is a torture!

so nio out~

 

[amerk]

*wheel, and you are seriously satisfied with high-saturated, blurry lame-chests rather than something that actually fits the tone and atmosphere you want your game to have?

The high saturation, that's what it is. The RTP just seems highly saturated. The pieces are nice, but it would be nice for them to lower the saturation down a bit. Not everything has to look so bright and saturated.

People don't have to customize everything; the RTP is there to be used, but using it well is what is going to make it stand out. Recoloring and lowering the saturation can help. There's a lot of resources in the store that will compliment the RTP, adding more than what you'd probably get for the same amount of money as hiring somebody. And you can do the same thing with those resources: recolor, edits, lower the saturation.

And there's plenty of tutorials to teach people to do all of these things. In fact, since you can't legally request edits and recolors of the store purchases like you can with the RTP, it should be incentive for people to learn these basics; and anybody can, even if they don't have the knowledge for creating graphics from scratch.

So, once again: edits, recolors, low saturation. Plus knowing how to map. That's the big one. Wide open maps with improperly placed tiles and over-/under-sized walls will look ugly with or without the RTP.

 

[mlogan]

The high saturation, that's what it is. The RTP just seems highly saturated. The pieces are nice, but it would be nice for them to lower the saturation down a bit. Not everything has to look so bright and saturated.

Huh, that's interesting. Because I find the RTP to be dull and lacking in color compared to tiles like Lunarea's and Celianna's. It's one of the things I love about their tiles - they are so bright and pretty.

 

[The Forgotten]

Depends on what you're going for. My game is overall a very dark theme, so the RTP as a whole was desaturated, contrast cranked up a couple notches, and the brightness turned down a bit. That being said, I didn't stop there. My Ruins Edit is barely recognized as RTP anymore it has been edited so heavily.

 

[Galenmereth]

I find Tint Screen and fog overlays with blending can breathe new life into the RTP. It's all about how you use it, as they say.

 

[captainproton]

I'm a bit confused. Are slick graphics and multiplatforming and all that other jazz necessary to create fun, engaging game? Look at some of those games from the 8- and 16-bit era. Even without the soft-focus lens of nostalgia making everything seem perfect and lovely, there were some great games made with less technojunk than what RM is capable of. Legend of Zelda Final fantasy, Ultima--hell, Venture is fun as all getout and it doesn't even HAVE graphics!

My day job is in the electronics and entertainment section of a major retail outlet, and I have to say, a lot of the games coming out now are the intellectual equivalent of pop rocks. "Ooh, hey this is grea--over it." They're beautiful, shiny fads with the depth of a damp napkin. But people buy them because they're pretty and new and expensive. (And the rampant misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and racism is a rant for another time.)

The point I'm trying to make is: is RM and the RTP really that bad? Or do you just suck at characterization, level design, plot, and all those other things that make RPGs more than just pushing buttons to make things happen on a screen?

 

[Shion Kreth]

I personally think people's dislike of the rtp is a learned perspective; maybe it's from looking at it for so long in the editor, maybe people's negativity has seeped in coloring people's opinions so thoroughly they believe it was their own. When all's said and done... they're 32 bit pixel graphics no matter how much effort you put in to it; they will never be anything more than retro and people who dislike retro are always going to be coming down on us.

The other silly thing I find is that people take such exception to 'crappy' rpgmaker titles using the rtp; believing it's somehow hurting their efforts to break in to the market. 1) Do people really think if there were scores of exceptional rpgmaker titles with custom graphics and excelent designs that it would be easier to compete against them because everyone would know rpgmaker games are awesome and as such would want to buy them all? 2) Everyone is really quick to label people releasing 'crappy games' as 'people who don't know anything about game design' when there is no one standard of what's good and what's bad; anyone here could be the target of such criticism at any time. I guess everyone just thinks they're so much smarter and talented so that could never happen to them, hah.

 

[Lars Ulrika]

I'm getting tired of those game making "hipsters" concluding that if you don't know how to make awesome anime graphics by yourself you're a lazy ass. We do with the competences we have while trying to improve and fill the flaws. Personally I'm a musician and I have always had an excruciatingly slow learning curve for graphic arts for some reason I never could identify. So yes, I'm using rtp and I'm trying many rtp edits to make the whole thing more personal and most of all focus on my main talent which is music to give a unique atmosphere. 

If that's "lazy ass work" then I don't know what we need to do so that it's considered "acceptable" to your standards. I can totally understand people tired with RTP but being called lazy because I don't have an awesome deviantart page? I'll stay polite but I think those two words very loudly still. 

 

[Dalph]

RTP fanboy here.

I don't give a single damn about what the haters say or think, I love the RTP materials and the RTP characters, they have a lot of potential and can be used\edited in a lot of different ways (check PandaMaru's gorgeous stuff here for proofs, most of her work is based on the RTP).

Also sorry, but custom graphics doesn't label your damn game automatically as "good" (it can help a lot yes, but since when appealing means necessarily good or interesting?), it's all a matter of execution.

As Kumori already said, there are really a lot of terrible RTP games around, that's probably why the materials aren't appreciated enough.

Don't complain about the RTP materials (because they're good), just complain about your game development skills instead.

 

[nio kasgami]

I'm getting tired of those game making "hipsters" concluding that if you don't know how to make awesome anime graphics by yourself you're a lazy ass. We do with the competences we have while trying to improve and fill the flaws. Personally I'm a musician and I have always had an excruciatingly slow learning curve for graphic arts for some reason I never could identify. So yes, I'm using rtp and I'm trying many rtp edits to make the whole thing more personal and most of all focus on my main talent which is music to give a unique atmosphere. 

If that's "lazy ass work" then I don't know what we need to do so that it's considered "acceptable" to your standards. I can totally understand people tired with RTP but being called lazy because I don't have an awesome deviantart page? I'll stay polite but I think those two words very loudly still. 

agree with you it is not because you don't have super awesome art people have to say you are lazy for admit I think it is more easy to draw a faceset instead to make a music more complex draw you can just input what you think on it music gosh....you have to know a lot of Note and make them fit each other with a big hammer!

myself I don't have a full deviantart and it is not remove the fact I am not so much bad for make rpg maker game OKAI ....my ma^pping skill is not excelent but I try~

 so if someone say you are lazy because you don't do super anime stuff  say it  go f****c yourself owo!

RTP fanboy here.

I don't give a single damn about what the haters say or think, I love the RTP materials and the RTP characters, they have a lot of potential and can be used\edited in a lot of different ways (check PandaMaru's gorgeous stuff here for proofs, most of her work is based on the RTP).

Also sorry, but custom graphics doesn't label your damn game automatically as "good" (it can help a lot yes, but since when appealing means necessarily good or interesting?), it's all a matter of execution.

As Kumori already said, there are really a lot of terrible RTP games around, that's probably why the materials aren't appreciated enough.

Don't complain about the RTP materials (because they're good), just complain about your game development skills instead.

TOtally aprovnya! Myself I love rtp style (not the faceset but aniway each people have is opinion xD) and I alway's try to use them in my game~

but find me silly or weird but I love to give them some new kind of haircut ;w;!

and in a good Mrrn lover...I have to love rtp!