Why is the RPG Maker name so hated?

[taarna23]

There's one quote that reminds me of all this:


"Graphics don't make a good game"


Speaking of (especially store wise) RM has a lot of resources but at the same time is limited still.  There are a lot of games that use these resources so seeing the same graphics all the time could be a big let down and not refreshing.  I wish I a graphic artist myself to contribute but I am not.  I do buy what I can so show support to the community but still...


While I myself aren't picky about the resources as a player or even as a developer.  Down the road, I'd hate to constantly use the same resources especially when developing a project comes faster than the actual resources.  Again, as a customer or developer I don't mind much but there a lot of folks out there do.  You can only get a "new game" with the same resources so many times before it gets old.

I hadn't really considered this, but I agree completely. Pick out your favourite RPG. Now imagine a company made a completely different RPG, set in a completely different universe, with those same graphics. As you play, would you be seeing the new story, and the new universe, or would you be thinking of the first game you played that you saw these in? People make strong associations to the first encounter with something. It's what's strongest in memory, and anything we associate with that "first" brings back memory of it. When someone plays your game with RTP graphics, they're remembering the first game they played that used them, or their first time using that particular RPG Maker.

 

[Frogboy]

Pick out your favourite RPG. Now imagine a company made a completely different RPG, set in a completely different universe, with those same graphics.

I thought of this when I started creating my first RPG Maker game recently. So I asked the community if there were some default campaign setting or possibly bios of the iconic characters. I was kind of hoping that there was something like this out there that would help me avoid the same issue you're referencing but unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be. Maybe the community should work on something like that. Obviously it wouldn't be binding.

 

[Lunarea]

When someone plays your game with RTP graphics, they're remembering the first game they played that used them, or their first time using that particular RPG Maker.

This is why we always encourage people to use the graphics - whether they be RTP or DLC (exception being collaboration DLC that doesn't allow edits)- as a starting point, and not just the final set. If you take the time to do some light edits or clever mapping, it makes a big difference.


I've found that people don't react to the similarity in graphics as much as they react to the way the graphics are used. If your mapping is the same and your locations are the same as another game, that player who played the first one will be bored. If you're using a completely different atmosphere with different colors, shapes and maps, it won't be.

 

[Ultimacj]

To me I react to game play and / or story mechanics the one good thing about RM (assuming the person is taking their time making it and not butchering it) is that it opens up so many new stories from single people developers or a small "mom and pop" store.


I'd rather shop at a small store vs a Walmart because they have that unique quality to them.

 

[Marsigne]

I've found that people don't react to the similarity in graphics as much as they react to the way the graphics are used.

So that means that spending more money on mapping + tile edits is better than spending more money on completely custom graphics, efficiency-wise? That's good news

 

[Lunarea]

So that means that spending more money on mapping + tile edits is better than spending more money on completely custom graphics, efficiency-wise? That's good news

Yes, getting completely custom graphics but not using them effectively can do as much damage as having repetitive graphics because it can make those custom graphics seem forgettable.


Even if you're not an artist, taking a little time to learn more about how to customize tiles and how to map better is time well-spent.

 

[Andar]

@Marsigneyes and no - edits and good mapping costs less than completely different sets, but nothing helps a bad map design.


A lot of people do not understand that there is a difference between mapping and map design. A map has a lot of different functions and focusing on one only (like only about visible nicety or only about functionality or only about usability or only story-integrity) will usually show sooner or later.


Edit: ninja'd - But Lunarea was talking about a slightly different point anyway

 

[Marsigne]

@Andar - Ah, that too.

 

[AwesomeCool]

@Lunarea - So basically according to your data:


good custom resources + good design > rtp with some edits + good design >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good custom resources + meh design > rtp with some edits + meh design?


...or aka, money doesn't make a good game.

 

[Lunarea]

What I'm saying is... Effort makes a far far bigger difference than a budget alone.


Ideally, you want to invest some money in resources - and that includes custom resources and custom promotional art. But be mindful of what you pay for and make sure your investment was worth it and you're not just pouring money into a game that isn't worth it.

 

[Saboera]

Speaking about custom graphics, another thing to take in consideration is art consistency. If you deal with multiple artists or make custom resources or edits yourself, be sure it's consistent across the board. Art inconsistencies are something that seems to plague a lot of RPG maker games and do contribute to that low quality feeling.


I really dislike the RTP personally, it's frankly terrible at doing old school RPGs for modern machines and shouldn't be the type of graphical assets included by default. The art is cute and all, so long it remains at 100% resolution. However, on modern machines it can be end up being really small and when you use a script to upscale your resolution or go full screen, it looks awful and has none of the charms of old school RPGs. Everyone expect their games to look good on their machines, not be a miniature window in middle of their screen. Thankfully, MV sort of fixed the resolution issue but really should have been providing higher resolution resources than 48x48 as a default template to go by.


Because of this, custom resources are in my opinion wayyyy better than the RTP or any edits you can make. It can also be cheaper since producing resources that have the consistency required to keep up with the RTP is a lot harder and costly than finding a simple, clean, pixel artstyle that looks good. At the same time, if you pick a color palette rather than go with the RTP style, you avoid bloating your game's file size with pointless color information, especially if you use parallax mapping or a custom mapping system and not tiling.

 

[XPKobold]

But you also have to remember RTP is a good starting point considering there's quite a bit of stuff i noticed that is based off the original RTP but different mainly Mack &Blue tilesets and the REFMAP. The fact that it's different but you can tell it's an offshoot of the RTP shows how much care was taken. Though while there a lot of  MV, VX/Ace and XP RTP finding some for the retro rpg makers 2000/2003 is a needle in a haystack. However this does open encouragement of using the defaults to it's fullest quite well.

 

[Ultimacj]

Changing the tint can go a long way.


I've changed the tint of the arrows that come with the DS pack to cool blue to match a theme of an ice cave to a deep purple effect to match an evil castle.  It's not much but it def stands out.


Still aside from simple edits most of us just don't have the "artistic touch" to make something stand out.


And some people just don't care for the style of snes graphics.


Insert 'back in my day' speech here

 

[Soulnet]

I've read more reviews on RPG Maker games I steam lately but there's a lot of dead which make the rest of us look bad. 


Maybe RPG Maker should have its own greenlight run by a small committee?

 

[Seacliff]

What I'm saying is... Effort makes a far far bigger difference than a budget alone.

Thankfully, we have... recent examples to back this up.

Maybe RPG Maker should have its own greenlight run by a small committee?

One thing I think would be great, though I admit would be no small feat, is an online store dedicated to commercial RM game. I know such things exist, but one supported by these Web team with help with support through the RPGMaker.Net team would be my ideal dream.


Because screw steam greenlight. It's so easy to break and get what you want with it. They may as well be handing out free passes.

 

[AwesomeCool]

@Seacliff - I agree.  It is too easy to get a game on Steam (never thought I would say that).  It is actually hurting good games by making a person having to sift through pages upon pages of unfinished, unplayable, poorly made, asset flips and even stolen games (which if banned, the "developer" adds it again til it makes through and makes money off other people's works).


Why would anybody even bother to find a good unknown indie game though all that trash? I don't and I know there are good games out there, but there are so many developers lying about there game, deleting comments notifying others of the problems of the game and including screenshots of sexualized woman in order to get more sales (it works according to steamspy... ...better than making a functional game profit wise).


Greenlight needs a MASSIVE overhaul.

 

[cekobico]

I kinda want to know, how many other game engine that provides "art assets" on initial purchase of the software? 


I remembered using Free Trial of Unity and there wasn't enough art assets that comes with it to even make a complete game that spans more than just one type of world (I remember I did get a military base-like buildings but there wasn't a lot of variety) to begin with; forcing you to go to the store, and buy a few or hire a 3D artist to make a few sets. 


Are we somewhat spoiled by RPG Maker by being provided of default assets enough to make one complete role-playing game? Which leads to everyone's game...looks RPG Maker-ish...


I feel I'm kinda late adding this in but...,


On another note, I still feel it's easier to make 3D asset than 2D asset. 


3D assets at least allow you to photosource their textures, thus speeding up your process by a lot. Modelling isn't that hard either with many addon/scripts/plugins provided by Max/Maya/Blender to create complex structures. Not to mention it's very easy to go all modular (using tiled-based approach to create complete structure of a building rather than modelling everything at once). 


Additionally, you'd find more free 3D original assets shared on the internet than 2D non-ripped assets. 

 

[AwesomeCool]

@cekobico - Unity is becoming worse with the asset flips happening all over Steam now (taking a unity store pack and reselling it as a full game with a different name).


But yes, I think that having the assets provide by default is adding to the problem (it allows lazy people to be lazy).

 

[XPKobold]

@cekobico - Unity is becoming worse with the asset flips happening all over Steam now (taking a unity store pack and reselling it as a full game with a different name).


But yes, I think that having the assets provide by default is adding to the problem (it allows lazy people to be lazy).

But unity is not beginner friendly considering it's 3D software and that's has requirements of understanding 2D stuff. And even then that takes a lot of time to learn to get used to.

 

[Parallax Panda]

Something many RPGmaker devs forget is that the first thing the player will see is not the fantastic story you want to tell. It's the graphics. You don't need good graphics to stand out, you just need something to make it look different. And anyone that expects to make money out of steam should be able to afford at least some decent looking promotional artwork (which you could also use for your tilescreen too, woohoo!). I'm certain that such a small investment would go a long way on greenlight since it at least shows that some work went into the product.

Likewise, if the first visual impression they get from your game is unedited RTP (and they recognize it as such) I think you're doing it wrong.

@AwesomeCool
 

...deleting comments notifying others of the problems of the game and including screenshots of sexualized woman in order to get more sales..

I don't consider it wrong, or even bad, to use sexualized imagery (be it of women or men) to sell something. It's a proven and well used marketing strategy and it's everywhere in society - not just on STEAM. Systematically deleting negative comments on the other hand is not only shady but a bad business practice since I've seen it come back to bite the developer in the butt ever so often.