Why is the RPG Maker name so hated?

Shion Kreth

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To me, most of these arguments about the rtp and rpgmaker games in general, regarding what's good and what deserves to be sold, read like this: "*I* don't like it and *I* don't think it's good enough so *I* don't want to see them and people should just stop making games *I* don't like because *I* said so", which should come as no surprise that every level of the video game industry experiences the same attitudes. Rpgmaker is just.. a visual minority, if you will, with people making the distinction that rpgmaker games are inferior to games made with other engines, in the same way some members of our own community distinguish games made with the rtp as inferior based on that single element (even though your average gamer can't distinguish one rpgmaker game from the other, and even label non-rpgmaker rpgs as the same). Some people just can't differentiate between their personal opinions and generalizable truths, and unfortunately they tend to be the loudest.
 

Ashton

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To me, most of these arguments about the rtp and rpgmaker games in general, regarding what's good and what deserves to be sold, read like this: "*I* don't like it and *I* don't think it's good enough so *I* don't want to see them and people should just stop making games *I* don't like because *I* said so", which should come as no surprise that every level of the video game industry experiences the same attitudes. Rpgmaker is just.. a visual minority, if you will, with people making the distinction that rpgmaker games are inferior to games made with other engines, in the same way some members of our own community distinguish games made with the rtp as inferior based on that single element (even though your average gamer can't distinguish one rpgmaker game from the other, and even label non-rpgmaker rpgs as the same). Some people just can't differentiate between their personal opinions and generalizable truths, and unfortunately they tend to be the loudest.
I think your mostly right, But there is some truth to the fact the RTP  is very generic and overused (though really, some of it boils down to "just how many ways can you draw grass tiles?" kind of questions. Though, just to play devil's advocate, is having only RTP available makes a game bad, how does one explain minecraft? Yes there are mods (though not on the console or android versions), but even then 90% of it is usually RTP, yet it's one of the biggest games ever made!
 

Sharm

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"just how many ways can you draw grass tiles?"
You'd be surprised.


I don't see how Minecraft comes into it, it's a single modable game, not an engine for making multiple games. Apples and oranges. It'd be more like having every single Zelda game have the same graphics if you want something to compare it to.
 

Lars Ulrika

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You'd be surprised.

I don't see how Minecraft comes into it, it's a single modable game, not an engine for making multiple games. Apples and oranges. It'd be more like having every single Zelda game have the same graphics if you want something to compare it to.
Game boy Zelda games were this : RTP and RTP edit stuff for most of it which were themselves downgraded edits of Zelda a link to the past too. 
 

Endafy

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To be copmpletely honest let me put it simple. If I wanted to see the RTP I would open RPG Maker.
 

Shelby

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To be copmpletely honest let me put it simple. If I wanted to see the RTP I would open RPG Maker.
I love this answer!!! Epic! I think this sums it up perfectly.
 

Dalph

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To be copmpletely honest let me put it simple. If I wanted to see the RTP I would open RPG Maker.
EDIT: Maybe I haven't explained myself correctly with my previous statement.

When you open the tool you only see the materials themselves and nothing else, it's like having a blank paper...there's nothing on it but you have many possibilities and you can draw on it anything you want.

You will be the one who will draw something on that paper and the RTP materials (like any other materials) will be your pencil, and ofc you need skills too.

So again, don't complain about the RTP materials themselves...it's all a matter of execution.
 
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Lars Ulrika

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You know what pisses me off much more than a commercial rtp game? But really 1000 times more. A damn game with the 10000000th kid setting up for a trip to (cross the incorrect statement) catch monsters / save the world / be teh strongets ...... except if there is an unexpected twist in the recipe. 

Because sometimes you can't afford custom graphics. But a custom scenario... that's free. 
 

Jonnie91

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EDIT: Maybe I haven't explained myself correctly with my previous statement.

When you open the tool you only see the materials themselves and nothing else, it's like having a blank paper...there's nothing on it but you have many possibilities and you can draw on it anything you want.

You will be the one who will draw something on that paper and the RTP materials (like any other materials) will be your pencil, and ofc you need skills too.

So again, don't complain about the RTP materials themselves...it's all a matter of execution.
Completely. This. 

You can have all the beautiful graphics, but I've seen custom RPG MAKER GAMES with custom graphics, that look atrocious in my eyes. It subjective. It is 100% subjective, and in my honest opinion if you judge a game on graphics alone I do not think you can call yourself a developer. because graphics tell only part of the story. 

As Dalph said, I've seen games made with some of the most nicest graphics around. But it is poorly executed with overly large empty spaces, and stupid placemenet of items it has nothing to do with the RTP. that is an excuse, you should not sit there and go "this is **** cause it's RTP" why don't you be a little less dense and look at the story inside. it's frustrating how many people act as if custom graphics make a good game. The sad fact is they don't. it is NOT a sure fire way of making a good game. 

Graphics are only part of the story.

The reason why so many, including at one point me, hate(d) the RTP is because of it's terrible use. I used to review RPG Maker games over on RRR and some games were absolutely stunning graphically but the story is awful, the music was out of place and everything was just terrible. The thing is, there is a POINT regarding not using the RTP, there ARE tons of resources available for you to use and with Steam Workshop it's even easier to install Celianna's or Lunarea's work and other RTP replacements, and it works perfectly, with also the plethora of graphics available as "DLC" and Resource Packs there is something you've gotta think about. 

I think the negativity of it being in a commercial game, is the saying "you've gotta spend money to make money" which is very very true, but at the end of the day, it is NOTHING to do with the RTP, I love seeing the RTP used in interesting and original ways, i mean look at the restaff releases on this site, it is full of prettier versions of the RTP where things are simply edited to make it look and feel real rather than 32px squares. 

A lack of developers effort is what should be discouraged not the use of the RTP
 

SoulPour777

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EDIT: Maybe I haven't explained myself correctly with my previous statement.

When you open the tool you only see the materials themselves and nothing else, it's like having a blank paper...there's nothing on it but you have many possibilities and you can draw on it anything you want.

You will be the one who will draw something on that paper and the RTP materials (like any other materials) will be your pencil, and ofc you need skills too.

So again, don't complain about the RTP materials themselves...it's all a matter of execution.
Give Dalph a medal. This is exactly what I want to bring out. Don't complain about the RTP, because if you really want a custom graphic, then what are you doing other than complaining? Draw it yourself then. Make it yourself then. He who complains about the RTP that it sucks is like a fool, who, in general, would only delight in something he thinks would make the game better, rather than doing something about it or using it to make a good game.

Because if the RTP sucks and its like the most useless thing on RPG Maker, then I guess they didn't have to include it on RPG Maker, and there's a sign that says:

Enterbrain: Hello, RPG Maker Users, do your own graphics.

Consider the artists who poured their time over the RTP as well.

RPG Maker is a sharp and dedicated sword for the wise and understanding, a broken sword to a useless inconsiderate brainless fool who only complains about the RTP.
 
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amerk

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I used to review games with a category called Audio and Visuals. I've changed it in recent months to Atmosphere, because atmosphere and aesthetics is all that matters in terms of graphics. I don't care what's used so much as how it's used. And there are ways to do this:

Edits, recolors, shading, tinting, light effects, fog - the list could on.

Now obviously, a well designed game that features a good story and uses custom graphics is going to fare better than a well designed game that features a good story and RTP graphics. However, I won't thumb my nose at the well designed RTP game, either, and I enjoy both for what they are. I'll also always take a well designed RTP game over a poorly designed custom game, because let's be honest, what good is a game that can be barely be played or tolerated even if the graphics look pretty? If all I were to care about is shiny graphics, I could just watch it on youtube.
 

Arkecia

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This makes me want to do a RTP styled game that uses nothing but RTP for map graphics, just so I can try to make a game with them that even naysayers would admit looked pretty good. There's nowhere that says your free to use graphics from Enterbrain have to be used exactly as is. There's a lot you can do with them, and even for artists making their own tiles, this can be a fun exercise.

I can understand people being tired of seeing the RTP, but some users, myself included, feel a charm from it and treat it as a bit more than a means to an end. People continue to make games with it, despite there being many other free alternatives. Partly, because new and old users have fallen in love with the style from the beginning, and partly to foster a community spirit between us all.

At least that's how I felt when I first looked at the RTP after purchasing Ace, that the RTP looked fun to use, so at some point I will use them, naysayers be damned.
 

Galenmereth

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I don't want to boast—that's not why I'm posting this—but look at this:

loav_wip_44.png


It looks pretty different from the RTP in many ways, yet all that's done with it is a fog overlay and a lighting script. I've not edited the RTP whasoever, yet the mood given off is very different. Again, you can do small things that make a big difference with the fundamental building blocks.
 

Ratty524

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Game boy Zelda games were this : RTP and RTP edit stuff for most of it which were themselves downgraded edits of Zelda a link to the past too. 
The gaphics of the Zelda GBA games communicated that they were Zelda games. The graphics of Sonic the Hedgehog communicated that it was a Sonic game. The graphics of the RTP doesn't communicate "Quintessense", or "Master of the Wind", or even any of the Amaranth games. It communicates "generic RPG Maker Dragon Quest rip-off game."

Do you at least see my point?
 
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I find it silly that the RPG Maker hate topic focuses only on the graphics... I personally do not hate RTP, but if someone wants to derive away from it. THEY CAN. Maybe there is not enough free materials at the moment that anyone could do it, but if someone has few penny to cough up for a skilled artist, they can get whole custom graphics set. RTP is definitely not where RPGM fails, since it can easily be replaced if there is a need. And for someone who cannot put enough money (since it will cost quite plenty to be honest or take looong while) or time into custom graphics, what there is, is still customizable and good start.

I have had so much fun with a couple of RPGM games. Some with good warm story and nifty writing and also a few that did not have story much, but were fun little games to play. If the person knows what they are doing, they can do well.

What I have seen, the hate for RPGM comes more actually from inside the community. People outside the community have not seen it even now that many times as we have. They have different level of saturation for them and are not quite fed up. Within the community there is the loud subpopulation, who thinks RPGM is nothing worth to pay for, maybe since anyone can use it. But more important is how it is used. I liked Dalph's pen and paper analogue a lot. It puts the whole thing neatly into a nutshell. eweb
 

Shion Kreth

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You know what pisses me off much more than a commercial rtp game? But really 1000 times more. A damn game with the 10000000th kid setting up for a trip to (cross the incorrect statement) catch monsters / save the world / be teh strongets ...... except if there is an unexpected twist in the recipe. 

Because sometimes you can't afford custom graphics. But a custom scenario... that's free. 
Free? More like priceless. :)
 

Shelby

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I don't want to boast—that's not why I'm posting this—but look at this:

[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/73268/rmvxace/loav_wip_44.png[/IMG]

It looks pretty different from the RTP in many ways, yet all that's done with it is a fog overlay and a lighting script. I've not edited the RTP whasoever, yet the mood given off is very different. Again, you can do small things that make a big difference with the fundamental building blocks.
lighting script? So you admit it is not all RTP???
 

Galenmereth

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All the graphics are 100% unedited RTP. But there is a fog overlay that changes the contrast of the scene, and a lighting scripts that make areas outside lighted spots darker.
 

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