Why the hate on TotT? (Read!)

[supercow]

so many tension relax you all.

better if you all have a discussion that stay on the purpose of the topic.

its a game, and the topic is why the hate.

ok back on topic, i havent played TotT but on the screenshot alone it looks cute

 

[sabao]

While not in itself a terrible game, it is a step down from the franchise's pedigree even for its time. Given the sheer number of Tales titles they've already produced prior, you'd think interface and AI would be something they'd already have locked down. Blame the hardware all you want, but the studio has worked with less with far more spectacular results.

Is it unfair to judge a standalone Tales game based on the merits of its predecessors on other platforms? Maybe. But given the context you can't help but feel the game was capable of so much more. Tempest was just brutally short, even with all the fluff two hit random encounters I had to go through. Account that along with the interface and AI flaws pointed out previously, and that's a whole chunk of the gameplay. The story was vanilla, even for the standards the series holds which I found was never meant to be all that high.

I must also argue that 'WELL CAN YOU DO BETTER' argument is inane. As a consumer, we are allowed certain standards to gauging quality without necessarily being experts at its production. I mean come on, does anyone have to be a master chef to know if they've been served burnt toast?

 

[kerbonklin]

 I mean come on, does anyone have to be a master chef to know if they've been served burnt toast?

*Raises hand*

Just kidding lol

I agree with that sentiment. However some people criticize horribly (and they have the right to) and it makes me (or the do-er) very mad, because other people might listen to it, and that spreads bad reputation or ruins sales.

 

[hian]

There is a certain standard to critique.

I mean, there is something called factually incorrect statements after all.

If somebody says FF7 is **** because you can't customize the skills of the characters freely, that would be objectively wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of the reviewer being ignorant.

While people certainly have a right to be ignorant, they don't have a right to have their ignorance go unchallenged, nor their stance to be respected.

As the poster above me noted, biased reviews and factually wrong commentary has a negative impact on a piece of art's public image, thus it's imperative that people who actually know the real nature of the piece in question, make a public statement of correction.

That being said, I'm not sure that the criticism of the game in question isn't actually accurate.

 

[Redeye]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...

You did NOT just diss Tales of the Abyss! You did NOT! Now I have to rant about how you just made fun of the greatest Tales game of all time!

Lol, back on topic, I never really played the game, nor will I ever, since I'm crossing my fingers to get games like Xillia and Vesperia, but even so, it doesn't seem too appealing to me. The story you mentioned was very cliche and even slightly boring. The gameplay sounded way too stiff, and overall a flawed game. But that doesn't mean people will hate it to pieces.

 

[sabao]

However some people criticize horribly (and they have the right to) and it makes me (or the do-er) very mad, because other people might listen to it, and that spreads bad reputation or ruins sales.

There are statements that, as hian has pointed out, are objectively incorrect (or invalid) and it's best to discern between what is and what isn't while taking everything in. Critique-- at least as far as I believe-- should be an objective process. Color me an optimist, but I believe more people know better than to take anyone's word online for anything without any sort of proper justification.

While both McTricky and Lankaino have valid points, they're overreacting just a tad and are taking this thing wayyy too seriously. Lankaino's personal attacks on anyone that choose to believe otherwise is unnecessary. McTricky's deriding of Tempest based on personal preference is also over the top. But hey, maybe that's just the fanboys in both of them talking.

If somebody says FF7 is **** because you can't customize the skills of the characters freely, that would be objectively wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of the reviewer being ignorant.

Agreed on pretty much everything you said.

I'm unclear on the part quoted though as FF and Tales are wildly different in how they approach mechanics. Modern FF has established itself as a franchise that constantly attempts to re-invent the wheel, so to speak. As far as critique goes, I believe that while there is room to compare one FF from another, each installment is intended to be analyzed on its own, given how little of anything carries over to subsequent installments mechanics-wise.

Tales, on the other hand, has a more or less established set of rules/mechanics that receive minor tweaks and additions every few installment. Much like when analyzing literature, I personally figured context/history would weigh in a little more in this case.

While not necessarily the universal standard, this was the approach I took in critiquing Tales of the Tempest. While I don't outright decry its existence, I do feel that personal tastes aside, it was a disappointment.

 

[hian]

My point in using the FF example was not to compare the franchises but to give an example of a factually wrong "opinion".

FF7 had the materia system which allowed all characters to equip all skills. For someone to say something lie "FF7 sucks, because cloud can't use fire spells lol", would be inane. A lot of criticism is like that.

I've seen people criticize MGS for not having auto-aim, while playing the game and using the auto-aim function.

Just wanted to point out that not all opinions are valid, or actually opinions at all. Many so-called opinions, are factually erroneous assertions.

 

[negative_headed]

I wasn't gonna post but I had to because the topic demanded that I read the topic and if I have to read then I have to post....

I don't like any Tales of game....

Annoying characters, lazy art, boring stories.... So you know.... that's why I hate on TotT.... because I hate on all of them... which you know.... is like better.... or worse.... I don't know...

 

[Arisete™]

I wasn't gonna post but I had to because the topic demanded that I read the topic and if I have to read then I have to post....

I don't like any Tales of game....

Annoying characters, lazy art, boring stories.... So you know.... that's why I hate on TotT.... because I hate on all of them... which you know.... is like better.... or worse.... I don't know...

The stories are boring? Art is Lazy? Please explain how the art is lazy (You could be trolling)




What is your definition of "non-lazy art styles" ?

It's basically like an Anime inside of a Game, same goes for most of the stories.

 

[negative_headed]

Not all opinions are trolling you know... >.>

Also being anime doesn't immediately disqualify it as lazy, there are different tiers in Japanese animation just like all other forms of art, Tales of goes for the quick sale rather then developing strong designs and ascetics which largely leads them to all kinda blend together in a bland indifferent mush....

It's essentially generic shonen anime...

 

[sabao]

Just wanted to point out that not all opinions are valid, or actually opinions at all. Many so-called opinions, are factually erroneous assertions.

I didn't mean to discredit your opinion or anything. Sorry, I think I may have lost track. What I might have meant to say was that given how radically FF changes its growth system it would be more prone to polarizing its audience. People may come in with a set of expectations based on the last game and have them all smashed to bits because the newer installment changed mechanics up again so much.


Upon reading your expanded explanation though, you're right. A complaint about the Materia system without the player actually extensively looking into it first is absolutely invalid. Thank you for clarifying.

...
It's essentially generic shonen anime...

I just have to point out, Tales in general is designed and animated by one of the bigger more successful animation studios in Japan, and yes, they specialize in Shonen.


While yes, Tales, character designs may have difficulty setting itself apart from most anime of the genre, their style and the overall aesthetic is unique to them in the RPG genre. I have qualms with it myself, but 'lazy' is the last thing I'd call it.