Will the Human Race evolve and branch into two different species?

Galenmereth

Retired
Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
2,248
Reaction score
2,158
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
@Solo: I don't think any of us are challenging your faith in any way. I think you misunderstood Touchfuzzy's comment too. This topic is about evolution, which means the subject is scientific in nature. People started challenging the scientific merits of evolution, and brought religion into the mix. I won't speak for Touchfuzzy, but the way I understand his post is that he's saying that from a scientific viewpoint, evolution has significantly more supporting evidence than the contrary.

I think the best course of action if you feel that this topic somehow confronts your faith in a way that makes you uncomfortable is to keep away from the topic, because like Shaz said, if it turns into a discussion on religion, it gets closed. I'd prefer we go on with the interesting scientific angles myself.
 

Arkane609

Apprentice
Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
145
Reaction score
35
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
The word "Faith" has been misused both by the religious and atheists. Faith itself is subjective and mere dictionary definition is not enough to completely define it.

So, what IS faith? Removing all of its associations with Religiosity, Claims, assumptions, and Authoritative Definitions, it is merely synonymous, but not to its entirety, to trust.

An atheist can have faith in the non-existence of a supreme being.

An agnostic can have faith in that there would be the formulation of a concrete evidence of the existence or non-existence of a supreme being.

A theist can have faith in a supreme being.

Faith is not automatic. It is not believing and trusting in something despite the lack of evidence. However, Faith is involved in moral choices, conducting scientific experiments, cooking, watching Doctor Who, feeding a troll, making an RPG game, crying because Steven Moffat killed one of your favorite characters, watching an awkward sex scene in game of thrones, etc.
 

whitesphere

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
1,688
Reaction score
784
First Language
English
I consider faith, in the broadest sense, to be something which is a personal given, something which does not change for that person.    These are assumptions based on that person's life experiences.  And they do not contradict logic.  Rather they form the axioms and foundation from which a person uses logic.

Even the famous "I think, therefore I am" statement makes assumptions.  It assumes that thought defines and is our complete identity.   So, someone who is entranced by the beauty of a sunset, or of a loved one, and has no thoughts, suddenly does not exist for that point in time.  But, someone cannot go from existence to non-existence and then back, so what is it that exists during that time of no-thought?  

So I don't think faith is specifically a spiritual or religious term.  I consider faith to be any assumptions we make about the world around us.

And evolution is definitely going on today.  Those of us who try to use bug repellent to avoid mosquitoes and ticks are finding, unfortunately, those are becoming immune to bug repellent.  The ones who are not don't eat as much, so they starve, leaving behind only those who are slightly better at ignoring the spray.  In some cases, mosquitoes and ticks have been observed walking through 100% DEET with no effects.  

I think humanity is evolving and will continue to do so, but it will be at a much slower speed than, say, bacteria or insects, since we obviously don't reproduce nearly as quickly.
 

Solo

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
1,104
Reaction score
154
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I consider faith, in the broadest sense, to be something which is a personal given, something which does not change for that person.    These are assumptions based on that person's life experiences.  And they do not contradict logic.  Rather they form the axioms and foundation from which a person uses logic.


. . .


So I don't think faith is specifically a spiritual or religious term.  I consider faith to be any assumptions we make about the world around us.
This is exactly what I was trying to say.
 

Galenmereth

Retired
Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
2,248
Reaction score
2,158
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
whitesphere: I agree. I'd like to add that it's important to make the distinction that faith does not have to mean religion.
 

GrandmaDeb

Modern Exteriors Posted!
Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
4,467
Reaction score
2,942
Primarily Uses
This topic is about evolution, which means the subject is scientific in nature.
Well, in some ways, the topic is speculative in nature, err, about nature, if you will.


Will natural selection, or human processes (i.e. the example I gave of physical separation of humans being one possible process) create separate species?


And since it is speculative, and on an RPG Making forum, I still insist on the ninja vampires and cloud of radiant sparkling dangerous shiz-wah being included. For equity's sake. =P Lol Galenmereth. a little mirth for you! =]


And if the word science is included in the same post with the word "ape" again, I am going to blast someone with links. Lemurs, people. At least, the last I heard, it was lemurs. nk. Lemurs.


"Common ancestors" is the concept, not ancestor. I am not stating agreement, I am stating the current understanding of the theory, but we ought to get it right, at least. Frankly, I am not well educated enough in this area to weigh in very well on the subject of the validity of the theory of evolution, but I still know how to have fun when the opportunity presents itself. =]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

enothehippie

Villager
Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Messages
15
Reaction score
12
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
These always escalate really quickly. Creationist and evolutionist. We have a hard time grasping a truth that can't be presented in front of us in the form of an experiment. Maybe that says a lot about our society. That as a whole we bicker trying to strangle ideas and truths out of thin air, and that at least in some sense empirical evidnce is respected.

 

Let's take a look at a few ideas ( and keep in mind they are just ideas ) , and hopefully answer the original posters question, because it is a good and valid question!

 

Evolution is the law of our universe. I'm not speaking only biologically, but as a whole physical process. What is in this moment, is only because of what happened in the moment before. What processes and physical states where not able to survive in their structure ceased to exist and what remains continues on until it is unable to exist further.

 

You could also say, "An object in motion,tends to stay in motion until it is acted upon by an outside force." - Isaac Newton of course. 

 

Now you can go up a step out of the realm of ideas, and see this reflected in the nature of stars and planets. Take Earth for example. Its traits such as its size, location, and movement through the cosmos, allows it to exist for an extended period of time, whereas a possible planet without those traits, may well be pummeled into oblivion, and perhaps was before it could realize its conception. 

 

Now thats all fine and dandy until life gets involved.

 

Creationism

 

First we have a creationist standpoint, We were created by intelligent design. This could be any design, from god, from alien, or something beyond our understanding. Now Given current evidence there is no reason to believe we did not evolve from a lower species; however, we tend to allocate to much faith in our science. Given the basis that scientific facts are only tests that have been repeated succsesfuly a multitude of times, and the human factor of incompetence in the face of testing their beliefs, it is not improbable that it is in error. Though I suppose the same could be said of any science. I think the supporting factor in this belief lies in variables. One does not account for unknown unknowns in science for obvious reasons, though they may exist right in front of our eyes, changing the nature of things before us.

 

Biological evolution

 

Simple enough to explain, creatures reproduce, combining traits. The traits that are better survive ( most of the time ) and the ones that do not cease to be (most of the time ). This process takes millions of years to produce a new species, why then have we not observed this even slightly in man?

 

 

It could be that gaining intelligence and self awareness has somehow stunted the process. With our great control over the forces of nature, we can have great control over who lives and who dies, survival of the fittest is only observed in smaller scales now. However being the social creatures we are, a few different kinds of evolution have emerged.

 

Social evolution.

 

 One society with certain traits coexists with another society. Much like the animals and microorganisms of the past, societies can split, reproduce, die, hunt, etc. they can produce the traits of a man on a large scale. When one society is in conflict (disassociate conflict as a negative term here) with another society, the inevitable result is a clashing of traits, and a reproduction of a new ideal, perhaps passed on from before, or entirely new. While this represents no biological basis, I think it still applies.

 

Technological evolution.

 

As science grows ever more prominent in our society, and at such a fast rate, I think that a technological evolution is in the near future. Where as normal evolution takes many years to come to fruition, a technological evolution would only multiply in speed with population increases, and scientific progress. With the ability to change DNA traits, splice genes, ascend to a computer based "pure energy" existence, body modifications, etc. evolution would be inevitable. Weather your creationist or evolutionist, you can't deny that.

 

You would even have those who would deny the technological evolution, thus creating two distinctly different races of a sort, So in this case, a divergent evolution would be at hand.

 

I have a more metaphysical idea if anyone wants to hear that ha ha.

I didn't mean to type so much, I usually don't do text walls, but take it for what you will, these are ideas, and I'm always open to having them smashed before me.....thus evolving my own mind!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Touchfuzzy

Rantagonist
Staff member
Lead Eagle
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
8,904
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMZ
Yeah, what Galenmereth said. I can see how my post can come off as really snide and dismissive, but its not meant to be.

The point of my post was actually that its a scientific issue. And faith has no place in science. I don't care what God you believe in, or if you don't believe in any God at all, it has no place in science.

The post was about the fact that the Theory of Evolution is one of the most solid and examined Theories in all of science. And the only reason it is in any way controversial is because of something OUTSIDE of science.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

enothehippie

Villager
Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Messages
15
Reaction score
12
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Yeah, what Galenmereth said. I can see how my post can come off as really snide and dismissive, but its not meant to be.

The point of my post was actually that its a scientific issue. And faith has no place in science. I don't care what God you believe in, or if you don't believe in any God at all, it has no place in science.

The post was about the fact that the Theory of Evolution is one of the most solid and examined Theories in all of science. And the only reason it is in any way controversial is because of something OUTSIDE of science.
I have to agree with you on this one. Perhaps the only reason its foundation is so solid is because science must continue to be vigilant. All of the faith based conflicts push us into a deeper rooted science, creating more studies, books and controversy.

While it can be frustrating, perhaps all the conflict is actually doing evolution a favor.
 

Caitlin

\(=^o^=)/ Kitten shall rule the world!!!
Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
912
Reaction score
2,095
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Evolution or adaptation is a slow process, but there must be change that's needed.  We all look like our fathers/mothers. Take a moth that lived in England, during the Industrial revelution there was a lot of smoke in the air that the only ones who survived could blend in.  The question of will human beings evolve into two species, maybe, and it is possible.  Just remember that evolution is the origin for species, not the origins of life, itself.  It does not answer that question.  My mother believes in adaptation, but not evolution, because she is unaware that it is the same thing.  It's just best to keep an open mind, ask questions and always question the source of their information, plus the people whose site or books you read.  There are a lot of snake in the grass, who uses outdated information from the 1900s as a means to disprove something.

Plus, just because it is possible does not mean, will happen.
 

Solo

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
1,104
Reaction score
154
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
The point of my post was actually that its a scientific issue. And faith has no place in science. I don't care what God you believe in, or if you don't believe in any God at all, it has no place in science.
This kind of rigid mindset will in fact inhibit humanity's evolution.

Faith is like the precursor to knowledge. If you merely have faith in something, that means you don't know for 100% sure that it's real; you just believe. But when you can say that you KNOW something... your faith has evolved into knowledge.

Some traditions attempt to integrate spirituality and science into a coherent whole. The idea is that "spiritual" things are actually the highest form of science that we don't yet understand, because they're so far beyond the currently-known laws of physics. Really, it's just pompous to assume that what we know is all there is. Come on; that can't be. There's so much more to life, the universe, and everything... there has to be.

Also, I never mentioned God one time in this topic. "Faith" =/= "God"
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Umbral Mirage

Villager
Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
17
Reaction score
4
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Don't kid yourselves, this is already happening, there's the masses and then there's the perceptive.

The perceptive, often labelled as either Hipsters or Pessimists, have a brain and concept of quality.

The masses do not. They buy, eat and consume without a second thought of the product.

They will branch off and deviate into something more befitting of their accepting lifestyle.

The perceptive will become like those aliens from war of the worlds or something.

I'm speaking out my ass, but you can't deny the genuine indifference between the socially complacent and those who have more sense than a bowl of fried tripe.

If any evolution comes, it will be from a continued begrudging on both parties. Though I doubt it will ever truly culminate, since 95% of the time those who are witless eat from the hands of the pessimistic.

Much like a sucker is born each stroke of the clock, a player is born each stroke betwixt, those players run the world while suckers live comfortably within. It's like a really ******ed ecosystem and its called society.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tsukihime

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
8,564
Reaction score
3,846
First Language
English
I'm sure if people wanted to live on Mars they'd probably need to undergo some form of adaptation or basically anywhere outside of Earth


Though realistically, that means turning Mars into something WE can live on, rather than adapting to Mars' environment. It just makes more sense right?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Umbral Mirage

Villager
Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
17
Reaction score
4
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I'm sure if people wanted to live on Mars they'd probably need to undergo some form of adaptation or basically anywhere outside of Earth

Though realistically, that means turning Mars into something WE can live on, rather than adapting to Mars' environment. It just makes more sense right?
Well yeah, the latter is much quicker and it's how we've dealt with living conditions sinmce basically forever.

I can only see our heads getting a little larger with evolutional transformation, I think that'd be about it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Probotector 200X

Probotect and Serve
Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
913
Reaction score
168
Primarily Uses
What? Your HUMAN is evolving!!

*Pokémon evolution jingle*

Congratulations! Your HUMAN evolved into a SUPERHUMAN!!

Eh, kinda lame, I know.
 

Luminous Warrior

Knight in Battle Scarred Armour
Veteran
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
436
Reaction score
70
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
SUPERHUMAN used Lazor Eyes! It's super effective! LOL

This thread is starting to get out of hand. I support the idea that evolution into a different type of species or subspecies is possible, but not into a new genus. Such as, a horse could evolve into a new type of horse, but it will never turn into a cat, even after eons of evolution. I am also a christian, and have directly felt the presence of God, so I can attest that He does exist. But this thread should be for fun, not fury. An attempt to see into the hypothetical futures of hypothetical realities that may or may not even be possible in our own. Not a debate on whether or not evolution is a truth or a falsehood.

On to the REAL topic of this thread. I think that if humans could colonize another planet, then we would be so advanced that we would stop evolving. Instead, we would adapt. We would build technology to make our lives easier in our new environments. Perhaps we would even find ways to alter our physical appearance as a new type of fashion. Maybe one city on one planet will have a fashion trend of green hair or heart shaped pupils. Of course, there would be intergalactic wars. Revolutions as cultures change from planet to planet, wars for resources, and galactic empires. Basically the plot of most sci-fi movies.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Messages
1,012
Reaction score
283
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
Humans are at the moment moving more and more and there is no isolation between different populations. At least, no geographical stable isolation that will remain for centuries and seclude the masses from each other. It also seems the borders may matter even less in the future. Which would lead to more people intermarrying between countries and the genetic pool might get combined. By this I would say that humans branching off to two different branches is quite unlikely. Definitely though, humans will be different from what they are today in the distant future. At least to some extent.

Evolution and species branching off requires though the seclusion of the populations, otherwise they will keep mixing and will remain able to mate (which is the common definition of species).

Genetic modification will, at least as far as I would see, not become part of our daily lives and will not be conducted on humans in long time. There is way too many ethical issues and science actually progresses rather carefully around issues that are part of the sense of humanity and being human. Stem cell therapies that are way less invasive and do not quite redefine humanity are still a hot potato. Personally, I even hope that genetic modification will not be conducted on humans, unless it is somatic (not heritable) therapy for genetic disease. Genetic modification creates several health issues even when done through the traditional breeding. The different races of dogs are suffering from so diverse health issues from too small skulls that their eyes pop out to all the respiratory problems the short faced ones have.

I see it super unlikely scenario... Especially, when we look into the past of the stone age human populations. Homo sapiens killed off (more or less indirectly, who can say) competing human species away. If humans were to branch off, unless humans develop a lot as ethical creatures, I am afraid either of the sub species would die out before. ;P I trust in humanity a lot.

For the religion vs. evolution argument, I don't even see why those two would mutually exclusive...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

whitesphere

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
1,688
Reaction score
784
First Language
English
I'm sure if people wanted to live on Mars they'd probably need to undergo some form of adaptation or basically anywhere outside of Earth

Though realistically, that means turning Mars into something WE can live on, rather than adapting to Mars' environment. It just makes more sense right?
I think, If we have mastered genetic engineering, it might be much easier to adapt ourselves to something that can live on Mars.  Terraforming would require a lot more resources to be transported to Mars as well as a deep understanding of how planet-wide self-sustaining environments work.

Otherwise, any flaws in the huge terraforming project will have created a temporary environment which will slowly disintegrate over the years/centuries/whatever. 
 

whitesphere

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
1,688
Reaction score
784
First Language
English
I see it super unlikely scenario... Especially, when we look into the past of the stone age human populations. Homo sapiens killed off (more or less indirectly, who can say) competing human species away. If humans were to branch off, unless humans develop a lot as ethical creatures, I am afraid either of the sub species would die out before. ;P I trust in humanity a lot.
Actually, according to some theories, although the Neanderthals did die off, there was enough interbreeding that, today, we all carry some measure of Neanderthal genes. 

And, there was some event which nearly caused humanity to go extinct --- the entire human population on Earth was reduced to some 50,000 people.

So we, as a species have already been through some pretty amazing events.
 

Tsukihime

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
8,564
Reaction score
3,846
First Language
English
I think, If we have mastered genetic engineering, it might be much easier to adapt ourselves to something that can live on Mars.  Terraforming would require a lot more resources to be transported to Mars as well as a deep understanding of how planet-wide self-sustaining environments work.


Otherwise, any flaws in the huge terraforming project will have created a temporary environment which will slowly disintegrate over the years/centuries/whatever.
I don't know much (or anything) about genetic engineering but in that sense it would make more sense.


I was thinking more like living in colonies, like how they depict in gundam lol
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

How many parameters is 'too many'??
Yay, now back in action Happy Christmas time, coming back!






Back in action to develop the indie game that has been long overdue... Final Fallacy. A game that keeps on giving! The development never ends as the developer thinks to be the smart cookie by coming back and beginning by saying... "Oh bother, this indie game has been long overdue..." How could one resist such? No-one c
So I was playing with filters and this looked interesting...

Versus the normal look...

Kind of gives a very different feel. :LZSexcite:
To whom ever person or persons who re-did the DS/DS+ asset packs for MV (as in, they are all 48x48, and not just x2 the pixel scale) .... THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!! XwwwwX

Forum statistics

Threads
105,853
Messages
1,016,990
Members
137,562
Latest member
tamedeathman
Top