@xxKilimxx. My answer to the "just earn it" logic / is Kickstarter relevant or not?

[Tsukihime]

irrelevant. there are other avenues to explore that are much more rewarding in a much smaller time frame. you should only strive to make a huge commercial success if you have the time, money and capability to do so.

That's a really narrow way of thinking.


It's the same kind of capitalist thinking that encourages people to work in sweat shops if they're poor or uneducated.


It also undermines research in general because almost all of them rely on external funding.


Unless you're really lucky, you won't get noticed just because you don't have money. That's really sad lol

 

[amerk]

If somebody has the maker, and somebody is willing to front the cash, what they do to support their family is their own business. Sure, there are quicker ways to feed a family. The OP never said they weren't working to raise/feed their family while making a game.

If kickstarter is willing to give them the funds, so be it. And if the developer will use those funds to make a game others want to buy and play, all the more power to them.

The problem with KS isn't KS itself. It's the people who willingly give money away to a project they have little to no information about, and then gripe because the game either doesn't come out, it's half-botched, or not the game they expected.

Anybody can sell whatever they want, assuming it's theirs to sell. It's another thing to actually get somebody to buy, and that is where the responsibility lies on the developer. Had the OP come here and griped because they weren't making enough on KS to fund their game and had no way to feed their family, raise their daughter, etc., then yes, I'd agree at that point it's their job to figure out how to raise money in the interim. In this case, though, the OP is arguing the benefit of KS while they try to make their game. Keep in mind, a lot of businesses get their starts from borrowed cash. It's a risky investment for both the developer and the one funding the money, and there are consequences to failure, but that shouldn't mean the developer shouldn't be able to ask for money from those willing to help.

 

[seita]

Going to copy and paste what i said in the other topic, then add upon it since it's now on topic~
 

sure i agree, Inafune and mighty no. 9 is a perfect example of this. they break away from the corporate shackles that bind them and make a game they want to make. however, this is a rare occurrence, much like the scams i mentioned in my previous post. generally the developer in question has no respect or "honor" because they haven't made a game yet, hence they're on Kickstarter.
 
i'm not saying you're wrong at all! my biggest gripe however is Kickstarter becoming the norm for every developer.
 
? no one's asking you to do that your post doesn't make sense.

 
I don't agree, this is a very generalized statement in an industry that deserves to be recognized for its creativity and not for its money-making power.
 
The people you're talking about that have no respect or honor are on Kickstarter because it's an opportunity to make money, which is the same for every outlet where you can make money. They have varying degrees of successes and failures. As Kickstarter and other crowdfunding initiatives mature, people who donate their money will as well, and it'll be increasingly harder for those people to fool consumers.
 
Here's an example of a scammer who has tried multiple times:
First Attempt:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2024564809/oceania
Kicktraq: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/2024564809/oceania/
Second Attempt:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1400130230/oceania-online-mmo-rpg
Kicktraq: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1400130230/oceania-online-mmo-rpg/
 
You can see that there's a lot of red flags in this project. Initial red flags include:

• Unachievable goals with a very modest goal
• Horrible english (many scammers are located in countries that cannot yet use Kickstarter, going through US proxies)
• Immediate PayPal support (they get the money immediately, but this is a horrible practice for real devs because it does not count towards the Kickstarter goal)
• generic graphics, screenshots or videos that show little to no gameplay. (You'll notice the video is essentially all scripted, and quite frankly, it sucks).

If these red flags are more difficult to read, you can use the rest as possible indicators.

• Comments by the developer that promise but don't deliver. (You'll notice they comment but they never follow up on some questions or concerns)
• Little to no updates. No visible responses to backer comments, questions or concerns.
• No progress throughout the campaign.
• Large infusions of cash coming out of nowhere. These are made by the creators of the project themselves to hopefully get it funded, They'll receive everyone else's money including their own (-10%) (use Kicktraq's Daily Data to see these).

You'll notice that their second attempt looks much more convincing. It's headed by a convincingly-named group, they've lowered the project goal to help it succeed and added assets that make it seem more like a game and less like vaporware.
 
At the same time, those same types of people are the ones who are keeping the gaming industry from innovation, repeating the same old success story again and again or copying others to line their pockets. They're often in high positions not because they're honest but because they're successful at playing the industry. Kickstarter allows the consumer to bypass these people and spend money on the games they actually want.
 
The majority of successful game projects on Kickstarter are spearheaded by people who have been working in the industry as content creators and creative minds, not the corporate heads we all love to hate (for good reason). They've often created many free to play games online, Flash games, or they've worked in a traditional studio funded by publishers and they want to make their game now.They usually know what they're doing. Unfortunately a lot of them don't know how to market their idea very well, and some of these projects that deserve the money simply don't get funded.
 
As for the rare occasion when an unproven developer such as myself gains success through Kickstarter, that's exactly what it is, a rare occasion, and I'm not taking it lightly. All I know is, I'm giving my project my very best, like no one ever has.
 
From the other topic:

Games are a business. Kickstarter is a means to an end of creating a game to make a profit and entertain the masses. Idealism is irrelevant. If a game doesn't make money, then the game dev will not be able to make more games. This isn't a charity being run. Creativity is to be encouraged, but only if it can be profitable. If it can't turn a profit, (or in the case of kickstarter) justify the investment, then it's an improper use of the funds available.

 
I agree that games are a business, and people in this business do it for the money to survive in our capitalist society. Regardless, many developers are in the business because they love doing what they do (and I'm sure this is true for most of us here on this board). It's a passion and Kickstarter gives people the opportunity to live off of their passion in a way that simply wasn't possible before. If it doesn't take off, then they don't get funded and it's back to the drawing board. So in short, I agree.
 

my worry is that with kickstarter that motivation is diminished and some (not all) developers will take advantage of this

Motivation for a game doesn't simply disappear when cash has changed hands. It may make sense in theory, though you have to take into account the ramifications of running with the money. To get onto Kickstarter, you must make yourself publicly available to backers in one way or another. In order for a campaign to be successful, the campaign holder usually has to interact with their backers on a personal level. The more successful you are in your campaign, the more pressure there is on you to deliver.

If we're talking about scammers who do get away with it; I can't give you a direct example since I can't find the article. There was a Kickstarter scammer who ran away with the money. The backers tracked him down and started harassing him. Needless to say, he got what was coming to him.

Also, I pretty much agree with everything Mouser said.

 

[Shelby]

Since we are taking about kickstarter scams I would like to point out something that was not brought up which I am surprised about. Many people that hate on KS and do not get funded are people who did not even read the rules...If you are going to use a service and want money from people don't you think you should at least read the project rules?

A example of this is the fool who was using apple products as a main reward....these of course have nothing to do with him or his project and is a violation of the rules and a abuse of the KS service. Just something to think about.

 

[amerk]

The problem is people want to always pass blame on others but themselves. They don't read the rules, it's somebody elses fault. They invest into a project they knew nothing about with a developer who has no credibility, it's somebody elses fault.

Fault falls entirely on each person for whatever actions they take: that applies to both developers asking for money, and investers giving it out. Sure, some of life's hardest lessons are learned in the worst possible way, but that's life. I never ask anybody for money without first knowing their terms and knowing what I can give back, and I never give money without knowing the kind of person they are, what it will be used for, and what kind of relationship I've had with them in the past.