Yet another dissappointing release

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erikmidnatt

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if u look at the dev credits you will see its not a ton of people. community is much larger, i would leverage their efforts and be happy at how much of it is free...
 
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Zoltor

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Now only if the devs took the same stance and understood that it's a game engine and a tool that require constant updates and feature and growth rather then releasing it and waiting 2 years for MV Ace where removes more features. 
How so, RPG maker has always been a community based program.  Aside from the fact we should be allowed to put any thing as a condition, for page conditions(and not be limited to 1-2 of a specific conditions of a  type,), and mini map navigation in the "map editor", I don't see any problem with a program like the RPG Makers mainly relying on the community to modify to fit their "specific" needs.
 

Kane Hart

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How so, RPG maker has always been a community based program.  Aside from the fact we should be allowed to put any thing as a condition, for page conditions(and not be limited to 1-2 of a specific conditions of a  type,), and mini map navigation in the "map editor", I don't see any problem with a program like the RPG Makers mainly relying on the community to modify to fit their "specific" needs.
Because more and more things are not the standard. For example I assume you like the idea of 32x32 tilesize? But having to resize your tiles with in the editor then swapping them out and such is not acceptable at all.

I could make a list of a lot of things that should be in the base vanilla game. If the developers took their time and checked some the common most used things and added into RPG Maker people would be happy.

There will always be community scripts and addons but lets grow up and start adding most popular demanded things into the editor by default. 
 

Touchfuzzy

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To be honest, the only reason why you can consider this a somewhat good release is because Degica and the western community went out of their way to add functions that should already be in the program itself. Take out their awesome work and all you have left is a downgrade from VX Ace with a really, really weird interface.
Even without the plugins that were done by a huge drive by Degica, MV is not a downgrade from Ace. Its much faster, barring the weird lag issue that we are working on. Add in the open coding, and its got way way more potential than Ace has.

Also, on the topic here. Yes, we can package up feedback and such for KDKW, and we do, but I would like to point out that being angry at us isn't going to solve anything. Today has been a bit stressful, and if we can tone things back a bit, on both sides, that would be awesome.
 

Kane Hart

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Even without the plugins that were done by a huge drive by Degica, MV is not a downgrade from Ace. Its much faster, barring the weird lag issue that we are working on. Add in the open coding, and its got way way more potential than Ace has.

Also, on the topic here. Yes, we can package up feedback and such for KDKW, and we do, but I would like to point out that being angry at us isn't going to solve anything. Today has been a bit stressful, and if we can tone things back a bit, on both sides, that would be awesome.
I know and will agree with you on that. MV is a massive leap forward into the future. I just hope that things will improve and be added into MV and turn into some the older versions that had many updates.

I'm surprised though that plugin support was not a feature in the editor it'self. 

How cool would been to have that?
 

Seacliff

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I'm surprised though that plugin support was not a feature in the editor it'self. 

How cool would been to have that?
Because of the chances of breaking the editor itself.

And there will always be 'that guy' who does that and claims and complains it's not his fault.

And by 'that guy', I mean a lot of people will probably end up doing this.
 

Nutz2Fist

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To be fair, even if it there is a cultual difference, I have to agree that it is extremely bizarre to not have something as simple as word wrap and screen resolutions.

I am going to go all in on the javascript and like what I see so far,but

I do expect and hope for some updates to the program. Having certain things built in improves workflow and lets you focus on more complicated stuff.

The blurry text is happening to me too if it matters.
 

Andar

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I'm surprised though that plugin support was not a feature in the editor it'self.
It might have been easier for the people who know what they're doing, but it's much better this way for the support of people who don't.
A programmer knows how to use the IDE of his preference to open the js files (both plugins and default engine).


And the current way protects the engine from people who don't know what to do in a script while giving them easier access to the data they want to change.


If I remember some of the help-topics about how to use modern algebra's quest journal or the configuration problems with Yanfly's Message system or Yami's overlay script...


MUCH better this way....


Edit:

I have to agree that it is extremely bizarre to not have something as simple as screen resolutions.
Screen resolution in pixel/2D works differently than in vector/3D. The resolution change that is easy in todays program is always done in vector - changing a pixel resolution is NOT as simple as it might look to people.
2D screen resolution needs to be controlled by the developer, it cannot be automated.
 
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Zoltor

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Because more and more things are not the standard. For example I assume you like the idea of 32x32 tilesize? But having to resize your tiles with in the editor then swapping them out and such is not acceptable at all.

I could make a list of a lot of things that should be in the base vanilla game. If the developers took their time and checked some the common most used things and added into RPG Maker people would be happy.

There will always be community scripts and addons but lets grow up and start adding most popular demanded things into the editor by default. 
I'm no fan of their tile size choice for sure either(why 48x48, not only is it not standard, has anyone ever used 48x48 lol, atleast 64x64 would've made sense, but where the hell did they get 48x48 from), but one way or another, we would have to be editing tilesets anyway(unless you are ony ever going to use the RTP, and nothing else). Atleast MV supposedly comes with a way to change the grid size(not sure how exactly that works, but It's suppose to be possible to do such at launch), which is definitely a big improvement.

That's a harder thing to expect from a Japanese company, you see the Japanese public, is the only people that don't take the RPG Makers seriously, they "mainly" treat it as a game its self, opposed to being a piece of game development software, so if their QA teams are mainly made up of Japanese(which we know they are), they're not going to notice alot of issues or ways that can improve such.

I think the developers of the program its self, are finally starting to catch on to this fact(for instance, wasn't MV released outside of Japan first), but not quite as fast as some would have hoped.

They seem to have been listening to suggestion though, but clearly in a very selective way.
 

Kane Hart

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It might have been easier for the people who know what they're doing, but it's much better this way for the support of people who don't.

A programmer knows how to use the IDE of his preference to open the js files (both plugins and default engine).

And the current way protects the engine from people who don't know what to do in a script while giving them easier access to the data they want to change.

If I remember some of the help-topics about how to use modern algebra's quest journal or the configuration problems with Yanfly's Message system or Yami's overlay script...

MUCH better this way....
Ahhhh lol. I can't argue there but I want to because someone who has used a vast amount of engines sees this as a major flaw but I also know RPG Maker is suppose to be at the bottom of the food chain for people who don't want to program, and have a clear clean way of doing things without the mess.

But I can still wish :)

I myself could be doing this in Unity for example but I feel Unity is too bloated for this and most the grunt work is done for me. Now I wish I spent more time learning JS though in my younger years. 
 

kaukusaki

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My only gripe is the palette. The browns look awful! But with a little tinkering and some magic I can make do. >_> That's the programmer's life. XD
 

Chaos17

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I will stop you saying I feel you are just lazy right now don't expect just because you paid for 80 we will do all the job for you 



it's not window 10 bug it's your graphics card who are outdated and not works properly it's not the fault of the engine but your computer fault 

and honestly it's make me sick to see how much we worked hard and you dare to come and complain saying it's crap or outdated 

do you understand how much all these people at degica worked hard for make this engine far more better thant it's was before!?

honestly you are such a ingrat person to complain like a child

stop being childish and just learn how the engine works
Still, he is customer, that deserve to be threated with respect.

His issues can be easely solved, GOOD.

No one like to be disliked because he was just once dumb.

Let's not become a closed community who dislike newbies/clumsy people, please.

Also there're enough people who lectured him, imo.
 
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Nutz2Fist

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Edit:

Screen resolution in pixel/2D works differently than in vector/3D. The resolution change that is easy in todays program is always done in vector - changing a pixel resolution is NOT as simple as it might look to people.

2D screen resolution needs to be controlled by the developer, it cannot be automated.
I'm just worried, for example, If I export it to a phone that's 1080, and the game is in 720. Would they be able to have it full screen with the graphics blown up properly?
 

EternalShadow

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If you're wondering about the word wrap, I believe it is because in Japanese, there are no spaces. You can't wrap something with no spaces, unless you wrap by the letter - in which case, you'd probably be splitting words in half much like in English.
 

Shaz

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Please don't assume the engine is bugged because YOU are having some problems. There are plenty of people who DON'T have those problems.


What you would LIKE the engine to do and what it SHOULD do are not necessarily the same things. That does not mean the engine is buggy or faulty or poorly designed.


You don't feel it's worth $80? That's fine. That is your opinion. It is not a fact. Personally I think it's worth more. That is MY opinion.


Yes, there are bugs. There always is when new software is released to the masses with their almost-infinite numbers of setup. MOST people understand this, and while it's an annoyance, they know that fixes will come and it's not the end of the world.


Have you ever NOT complained about anything to do with MV? I have to wonder, with all the negative things you've been so vocal about over the past few weeks, why you even bothered to download it at all?
 

Matombo

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Still, he is customer, that deserve to be threated with respect.

His issues can be easely solved, GOOD.

No one like to be disliked because he was just once dumb.

Let's not become a closed community who dislike newbies/clumsy people, please.

Also there're enough people who lectured him, imo.
This.

@Endafy: if you missed some explanations in all this "discussion" just open a thread with a neutral question like:

"How change to Full Screen? Alt + Enter doesnt work"

and in max 5 min you have the answer "Key for that changed to F4"

This forum is like a strategy guid for your favorit video game with the boss you can't beat.

Here you find people pointing you to the hidden items you might have overlooked.

That doesn't mean they aren't there.

It might have been easier for the people who know what they're doing, but it's much better this way for the support of people who don't.

A programmer knows how to use the IDE of his preference to open the js files (both plugins and default engine).

And the current way protects the engine from people who don't know what to do in a script while giving them easier access to the data they want to change.

If I remember some of the help-topics about how to use modern algebra's quest journal or the configuration problems with Yanfly's Message system or Yami's overlay script...

MUCH better this way....

Edit:

Screen resolution in pixel/2D works differently than in vector/3D. The resolution change that is easy in todays program is always done in vector - changing a pixel resolution is NOT as simple as it might look to people.

2D screen resolution needs to be controlled by the developer, it cannot be automated.
well there is also vector/2D, but that's more complicated to understand oposed to drawing pixel based xD (pixel drawing works like reallife drawing what we are used to, vector drawing on the other hand (besides being done with graphical wysiwyg ui's) in it's backend is mathematically describing a picture)

so using it in rm would make the engine again more complicated and that's the last aim of enterbrain and dacia
 

lPaladinl

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I would strongly suggest to the OP that they take the time to watch the RPG Maker Channel series and try to get an idea of what all of the plugins do and how to start using them.




Yes, some of the features advertised happen to be done using Plugins (Many of which, yes, were made by some very generous community members). But you still get the features, as advertised, included with the product you purchased. You don't have to pay extra to get the features, they were included with what you paid for.

Is it an extra step, and perhaps even slightly annoying to some, that you need to install the Plugins manually on the first setup? Yes. It's also a step that RPG Maker tends to avoid, and is definitely a stretch in a different direction from how simple RPG Maker really tries to be. However it is also not a very difficult task to do if you take the time to figure out how to do it, and hopefully you can find plenty of information from the Community or otherwise to help you along.

To me, it seems that RPG Maker MV has definitely made a few steps more complicated than they used to be in previous editions. However there seems to have been a bit more care on expanding the potential of MV, especially for people who want to take Development more seriously and have more control over what they're making. Unfortunately this seems to have made it a bit less simplistic for people who prefered the usual standard RTP packs and not having to do a tiny bit of leg work to get everything together.
 
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astray_0125

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Is it an extra step, and perhaps even slightly annoying to some, that you need to install the Plugins manually on the first setup? Yes. It's also a step that RPG Maker tends to avoid, and is definitely a stretch in a different direction from how simple RPG Maker really tries to be. However it is also not a very difficult task to do if you take the time to figure out how to do it, and hopefully you can find plenty of information from the Community or otherwise to help you along.

To me, it seems that RPG Maker MV has definitely made a few steps more complicated than they used to be in previous editions. However there seems to have been a bit more care on expanding the potential of MV, especially for people who want to take Development more seriously and have more control over what they're making. Unfortunately this seems to have made it a bit less simplistic for people who prefered the usual standard RTP packs and not having to do a tiny bit of leg work to get everything together.
Quite true. Have been using RPG Maker since '05 - when I opened MV I went "where's all the assets? How do I import/export stuff? Where are the plugins?" I quickly looked online and got all the answers. Now MV will probably be fine - but the design as it is will detract from newcomers with no clue of what they want to do. Those who want to do more complex things in Unity would indeed do Unity instead. I don't really see the point of removing the resource manager and script editor (these two are probably more crucial than resolution or fullscreen - since the latter two can be fixed easily by putting scriptlets in) unless the program was built from the ground up (looking through it more, I feel like had been).

Those who have used RM for a long time already acknowledge and have gotten used to work-arounds. It would be offputting, however, if I was actually a new user to the RM series; I wouldn't know how to make transparent stuff (it would be difficult for me as well - since I don't have photoshop - then there's also the issue of trying to adapt earlier resources that often had pink backgrounds, etc - in a timely manner), and I would probably be annoyed that I had to open script files multiple times to read documentation to see if there were any potential compatibility issues. No - it would be even more basic; I would not know how to export or import resources, add or remove scripts, etc. Sure, it could be solved with a google search, but programs tend to be designed for ease of use - something that the earlier RPG Makers did very well (which would greatly add to its appeal versus heavier engines like UE and Unity). While it is still easier to use than Unity/UE, it has lost its ease of usage - and if it is seen as a "game" rather than a design tool, it should be assumed that its users wouldn't be willing to jump through a lot of hoops to customize their game.

I hope I didn't strike a nerve; it seems that posting this today is like walking on a minefield. But these critics have credibility to their argument. Looking at it from an RM user perspective, I'm excited with it. Looking at it from an newbie's perspective, I'm put off by how limited the program is (not complex, since I would not even know that there's a way to script - I would ask "what is this plugin thing" to myself, and would assume that the program does not allow for importing & customization). The community, however, can't sustain itself just by those of old blood - we're getting older, we have less time, etc. We need new blood to drive the growth of the community - and they mustn't be put off by the program. I would ask that the developers consider the following:

1. Resource Manager

2. Plugin Editor <--- this is somewhat optional since those who use plugins might be slightly more savvy

Probably a bit more, but #1 is probably a good/best point. Most new users of RM know how to import/export, they don't necessarily use plugins/scripts. At least, this is what I've seen from a non-RM website that creates many different types of games in different platforms: RM, HTML, etc. It is incorrect to say that there isn't room to improve. Assuming that the resource manager gets patched in, MV will probably shine - and there will probably be considerably less complaints if the above two are implemented. There are still a few more bells and whistles to make it perfect with respect to simplicity - arguably one of RPG Maker's core design goals - but those two are probably the most important.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I wished to get it off my chest.
 
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meccagodzillla

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guys its only been out for a day come on like i'm sure there going to fix things up and rpg maker community is kick ass if the dev team don't fix it's community well just have to wait for it. :)  
 

Kane Hart

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guys its only been out for a day come on like i'm sure there going to fix things up and rpg maker community is kick ass if the dev team don't fix it's community well just have to wait for it. :)
Not sure if these are legal but I have to :p



But in all fairness they will fix I'm sure a lot of editor issues maybe even the js stuff. I'm actually looking towards the community to help rewrite parts of the client being opensource I can see the community really helping speed things along. 

Maybe I doubt it but maybe the devs will also use community fixes and apply them to the game for everyone. 
 
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