You stole that from X game!

[Dr. Delibird]

You see quite often on these forums and other places people getting super....passionate about the level of originality a game has. These discussions are not exclusive to RM or indie games and do take place within the context of triple A titles. 


What I would like to discuss is how original should a game be? You can talk about a specific aspect of games originality or the game as a whole if you would like.


I will put my own opinion after a couple people have said there own, because is lazy atm.

 

[Syltti]

I think the bigger question is, "How original can a game be?" At this point in time so many different styles and systems have been used by various companies and circles that "original" can be difficult to find.

 

[Haydeos]

Well, it's impossible for every game to have completely original mechanics. The more unique you try to be, the more difficult it is for players to know what they're doing!


A developer shouldn't put stuff in their game because "OMG that game was really popular I should do what they did!" Just make your game, and put in intuitive game mechanics that are required to play your game how you imagined it should be.

 

[shockra]

Being truly original these days is next to impossible.  But that's OK.  Drawing on past work is how new stuff gets created.  As long as you're not outright copying a game, it's fine to use concepts from other games.

 

[Caitlin]

What makes a game unique or original?  I suppose it matters on your definition of ripping of a game.  Clones are games that share a game play mechanics, with a similar story, but it isn't the same game.  Nothing wrong with those, because some of those are interesting games.  There are games that try their best to avoid being cliche and only run into another group of them.  I don't go out of my way to avoid something that's been done, but I explore different things, often thinking about things.  I like to think in terms of characters, having my characters face troubles in their lives, but at the same time, I don't go out of my way to be completely original.  Even if you do create something original (which I actually did) I started watching television (Korean dramas) and discovered that my original thing wasn't so original in Korea.  But back to the "you stole that from x game" ... I find that reasoning stupid, really.


I wanted to create a game with RPG Maker 2000 or 2003, during the days when it was still an illegal maker.. It was a mixture of Star Trek, horror, Resident Evil (only no zombies) and you played an Ensign on one of those missing ships that the Enterprise often went out to find.  You had to escape the ship and this was WAY before Dead Space came out.  I didn't do it, because I couldn't find the resources as I was pretty bad at editing back then.  If I created it now, I would get the whole 'you ripped that from x game' and honestly, my idea was developed before their game.  You can't own game mechanics, story plots or even styles of graphics, only your own that you created.

 

[Kes]

Not really about designing mechanics.


I've moved this thread to General Discussion. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.

 

[taarna23]

Why, yes. Yes, I did.

• My dungeon mechanics are from .hack (and unashamedly so - without that inspiration, I never would have done the code work required to learn how to use random seeds and actually would have had a worse game for it).
  
• My battles are side view, so I must be ripping off Final Fantasy. I'll probably have a high-end healing item in a clock somewhere because reasons.
  
• My towns have been encased in some kind of forcefield, so I'm probably ripping off a popular book/TV show.
  
• There's tiles that when activated warp you between places. That's so Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest.
  

And all of the above are okay, dammit.


Take your favourite cool video game stuff, and play a giant game of boggle. Connect together the parts that mesh nicely and go make something awesome. Take something old and do something new with it. Or don't; maybe it works just the way it is.


Remember: If you can't do, teach. If you can't teach, yell at the people that can do; obviously life just handed you crappy cards and it's just so not fair.

 

[ShadowHawkDragon]

Rather than being original I aim to be 'unorthodox'. I take less heard off (or simply unpopular/secondary) concepts mix them with the more commonplace features we all know to create something familiar yet different. I also try to shake commonly accepted principles (such as making grinding near impossible in my current project)


An example of an idea I tried messing with was to take the well heard off infamous 'inta-death' moves and make them the Main Character's primary offensive moves (mixed with a bit of rock-paper-scissors type behaviour for puzzle-like battles).


Was it original? Not really, it was mostly just a glorified 'element' system that guaranteed the kill if you got it right but did nothing if you got it wrong.
Was it different? From what I can tell, yes.


Ultimately I shelved it but not because of this unusual mechanic but for other issues that I'm only just starting to unravel in my current project.

 

[Crabs]

Might be bad for developers who was the first to explore a specific game concept. But it's good for players since we get more games that uses the mechanics we like.

 

[Rachma334]

You can be original while staying creative. e.g: Bravely Default is a simple RPG, but has a system of Brave and Default, that was the only difference and the game was excellent!


So try to be creative... if I could have time for coding I'ld buy XP or VX and try to make an action rpg, is it original? no. But I could add few new systems

 

[_Shadow_]

Wait. You can create something original getting inspired from other previous artists.


If I would EVER inspire an artist to do something, I would be really thrilled to know about it.


This is a great thing. Not stealing.


Take for instance the band Monkey3. They are well inspired by Pink Floyd and they even show that on stage at lives. And it is SOOOO OK with the crowd, because they made their own songs, their own style and their own sound.


Meanwhile a copy-paste with nothing added and claimed as someone else's original work, is a copyright infringement. THAT is considered stealing. But not inspiration.

 

[richter_h]

Well, there's nothing new under the same sun. There's no original things under the same sky. People would copy here and there, steal one or two, and make it their own based on what they've got, be it mechanics, aesthetics, or mere gimmicks...


But you can mark your works as your own. Different hands make slightly different things although the product is basically the same. You might stumbled upon two different things, but when you take a second glance, boom! You might find the silver lining between said things.


Also, getting something from one source is stealing; getting something from multiple source is research.


And remember, it isn't about from where the stuffs came from, it's about to where you'll take them to.


P.S.: Either you choose to be a covert thief or loud bandit, there are lots of things to take out there. Managed to craft something from all those things you've got? Good. Else, no problem; there's always another try. People found you red-handed (figuratively)? No problem; you'll always have chances to free yourself and explore for more.


Remember: Stealing stuffs is illegal in many places, but taking on some research is always welcome.


P.S.S.: Ahh nu cheeki breeki i v damke!

 

[Lihinel]

My game is made using VXAce, but I use XP Tilesets and characters, Edited MV Facesets, stole my environemntal skills from Golden Sun, my elements and weakness/strenght tables from Pokemon, my skills from Guild Wars, my battlesystem from general general MMO/WoW Raids, my Cooking System from GW2 and Harvest Moon, my Characters from various Anime, Manga, Books and TV Series.


Baseline: I stole them, their mine now, deal with it.


(Whats really funny is how everything seems more original than most RPGs now, for example the restriction to 4/6 elements fire, water, air, earth and maybe light/dark you see in 80% of projects.)


U' know: Good artists copy. Great artists steal .

 

[Webby]

Originality is nearly the most scarce word in terms of mechanics...


SO, my opinion is that games may have the same mechanics, story, etc. but they differ in how they present their game,


it's all about the competition, making your game stand out throughout the rest of the titles.


Taking concepts from other games, cartoons, etc. is fine but don't make it subtle that almost anyone can spot it, tweak around,


mix and match it with the other concepts you have in mind and you may end up with a fresh idea...

 

[lianderson]

As long as you´re bringing something new to the table, either a unique storyline, game mechanics, graphics, etc, then most people will be fine with its originality level.

 

[PsychicToaster]

I'm one of those people that gets passionate about the features of a game. I wrote a rant about it one night. 

 

Spoiler

Why are so many "Features" lists for RPGM games an exhausted grab bag of features from highly praised, commercially successful mainstream titles? I realize it's tough to innovate, but if I were having a face-to-face conversation with the average RPG Maker developer and he or she began a sentence with "The features of my game are-" I would interrupt with "Let me guess. A crafting system, a resource collecting system, item augments, 'unique' character classes, an open world or multiple story paths, character romances, and side-view battles". I'll be charitable and say RPGM games aren't the only culprits in these worn-out, generic video game centerpieces. They just seem the most culpable.
 
Not every game needs every single one of these features. Especially character romances. When did this become an RPG mainstay? I never once thought "gee, I really wish I could get personal with Marle" while I was playing through Chrono Trigger. I didn't think 'Nerevarine' meant "Morrowind James Bond, let's go get it on with some Imperial chambermaids and not spend the next day with them". Romance worked in games like Dragon Age because characters had depth, their dialogue was nuanced and was reflected in their rich personalities. As a player, you grew to care for these well-developed characters, so their romance subplots didn't exist as diluted adolescent wish fulfillment but rather as a means of getting a more personal look into the heart and mind of someone you've traveled and fought alongside. The world reacted to your relationship with a companion, it wasn't just the result of a stagnant mini-game designed to artificially extend the length of a game. If your characters lack the depth and personality to make romance work,and it doesn't at least make an impact on the game world in some way, it isn't needed. Innovation isn't necessarily creating something new. It can and often will revolve around taking what you know works and adding your own polish to it, allowing otherwise familiar game systems to be fresh and exciting.
 
 I've no real problem with side-view, but again, I stress that it needs to be mechanically different. Encourage meaningful strategy, develop skills and character classes that don't have 40 of the same spell with slightly different animations and exponentially increased numbers in their formula. Go classless, create weapon skill levels and weapons with damage types that you can utilize against certain opponents, augments that can change the way a class is played entirely instead of just giving +5 to Heavenly Sword Strike of the Sixteen Valkyrie Hiding In Thor's Armpit, and put forth some effort instead of the usual banal offerings of classes and skills that conform to specific roleplaying archetypes. 
 
Crafting is usually wholly unnecessary, or winds up being a massive power spike later on in the game where crafted equipment dwarfs enemy drops in stat levels. The opposite is true as well, with crafted items being underwhelming and not worth the time investment at all when you can walk into a shop and buy something better for 5 gold, or just lop the arms off of that Tolkien inspired Orc monster I know you've been working on and then loot its corpse.
 
Game design, artwork, and writing are a passion, not just skills. It seems so enticing to have a huge project planned, with 50+ hours of gameplay and a host of modern RPG features, but those elements alone do not make a good game. A 15 hour game with an excellent setting, fun mechanics, and characters that are larger than life can shine like a beacon among the games in the $10 bargain bin, brimming with excessive content that acts as mere filler because the expectation of the contemporary RPG is that it can't be good if those things are missing. It can, but it's entirely up to you to make it. It's a long and arduous journey with its own series of successes and failures, and only those who have paid their dues will move on to create a truly wonderful gaming experience.
 
Is this an abrasive thing to say? Yes. Am I wrong? That depends on how easily offended you are by someone who might one day play your game and won't be the only one who thinks your features aren't good enough to warrant spending money on it.

It isn't a matter of being 100% original and never including features you've seen elsewhere. It's about how and why you've decided to implement them, and what you've done to make them stand out. Does your game have crafting because it is interesting, well-developed, has depth, and isn't useless? How about romance? Is your combat system better than "mash 'Attack' to succeed"? How unique is your game world, and have we already seen 400 similar iterations of it? Nobody expects you to make the next Undertale, which was arguably one of the most entertaining RPGs out of the last five years, but if all you can do is include a feature seen in another game for the sake of doing so, and because the plugin was available, then in I think you're doing it wrong.

 

[Oddball]

i think fnaf at its release proved that originality does occur, but is very rare. it had completley original mechanics and concept, but its an exception


i agree that a good way to be original is to take old mechanics and redo them in new and interesting ways. alot of plugins cant be implemented in new ways, but there are alot that can be

 

[Ursa Koda]

I think you people are not original, because you all say variations over the same theme 'there is no new original things anymore'.


So let me be original then and say 'I think there is a lot of original new stuff coming out every day!'.


Every idea was the first of its kind. And mankind is still creative, is not so bad in originality as you make it out to be.


There is still inventions and innovations, every time you see a new popular thing, someone very recent had the first idea of it.


People copy a lot, and get inspired, and I think that is nice too. I wouldn't dream of stealing, and if i accidentally have an idea, is good if someone gets inspired to have more ideas of their own. Ursa Koda said: One tree bears many apples. So yeah, art isn't dead, it is living organism everchanging interactions in clusters.


And all good ideas is from God, and all the bad ones is from the devil. You can quote me on that too.

 

[bustedradio]

Hm . . . this discussion kinda brings up the memories of Undertale.


This game has a lot of mechanics that have been done to death, but combine them interesting ways. For example, Undertale has non-traditional turn based combat for most battles. Each turn you can decide an action: attack, talk, item, and run. It's pretty standard. However when it's the enemy's turn, it turns into a bullet hell where you have to dodge in order to not take any damage. I've never seen that combined in a game before and that was a pretty damn cool idea.


I think it's okay for a game to lack original mechanics or even an original idea. The way it's executed is the most important part to me. There are many ways to tell a story about a country in war. There are many ways to tell a story about haunted schools.There are many ways to tell stories about reluctant heroes rising up to save the world. But how many of them are told the same way? Sure there are stories of heroes going off to save a princess, but what happens moment to moment is what makes those stories different from each other.


Only you can tell your own story, in your own way.

 

[Ursa Koda]

 Sure there are stories of heroes going off to save a princess, but what happens moment to moment is what makes those stories different from each other.


Only you can tell your own story, in your own way.

You have many good points, I can just mention Shrek! Like you say, how many times have we heard about the rescue of the princess.


But wasn't Shrek completely original even if everything pretty much was 'stolen' ?!! Brilliant movies for old children