The first two points are the most important to me, and I don't freakin' care about the graphics at all (yes, it helps but it's not fundamental to me), I think it's childish to play or judge a game only for that.
1 - Role play. Of course. I expect to be able to role play (aka choose) what I'll do during the game, not only during the combat. Which leads to->
2 - Story & characters. As it is the main source of difference between a game you'll love to play and a boring one.
3 - Graphics & music. I put them together because one without the other would feel awkward. Like standing on one leg when you have two.
4 - Gameplay. As good as can be the 3 earlier points, what's the point if I can't play? I have tested games which made me wonder if they were designed for octopuses (not on this site though).
5 - That-little-something which makes great games. I know, that's not an answer. But some games succeeded by being the only ones that had that-little-something which makes great games. Call it Talent .
1. Characters:
This is actually most important for me because no matter how awful the story is, as long as I love the characters, I'll still probably enjoy the game.
2. Exploration/Variety of Locations:
The full RPG effect isn't there for me if there aren't places to explore and different places to see. It gives me a sense of progression through the story, even if I have to revisit some places from time to time, the difference of locations keep everything fresh for me. Immersing myself in an environment is really important to me.
3. Story Progression:
I actually don't mind a cliche story, but as long as there's good progressions going on in the story to make me feel like I'm reaching closer to the end, I'll be satisfied. This is also really important because it'll keep me wanting more, but if I don't like any of the characters, I'd rather drop it.
4. Straightforward Combat System:
If the game includes combat, I prefer a system with less fancy bells and whistles, but I'm not asking for the bare minimum. Just something easy to pick up and play, and if it has a few different mechanics that aren't a pain in the ass, I'm all up for that.
5. Interactivity:
Talking with all the people! Looking through every nook and cranny! It's a favorite thing of mine to do when RPGs offer this, and I especially like it if I'm given something in return from interacting with things.
I'd pick out more things that are a must, but those are my absolute musts for a top 5. Music would have been up there, too, weh.
Nice topic and it's amazing how many things appear on pretty much everyone's list. Let's see. Mine would be:
1. Immersive story with characters that I can care about.
This is probably the main thing for me. If the game doesn't capture my interest, I won't play it, even if it's super polished.
2. Good presentation and clear, concise instructions on everything.
This means that the game doesn't confuse me as to where to go next or how to use a certain feature within it. An overload of information right away is just as bad as not telling anything at all. Likewise the game has to be considerate of the players. For example telling you when you're about to go to an area with no way to return.
3. Good soundtrack.
I agree with what everyone said. A good music can greatly enhance the immersion and make the scenes feel that much more epic.
4. Visuals.
It's not so much about amazing, realistic graphics, but more about the visuals making you feel welcome in the game's world and adding to the immersion as opposed to pulling you back out of it.
5. Appropriate length and amount of content.
This is probably a strange one, but I've played games in the past which felt a lot longer than they should've been and felt extremely padded and repetitive. Other times I played games which were over too quickly and left me feeling unsatisfied. This also includes the sidequests and optional stuff. I think it's important to get that balance right. Sometimes players might feel like doing optional content, other times they might not care for it and just want to get on with the main story. There should be enough for everyone.
Because, if you're generally speaking, everybody's going to say the same things(which in most cases goes completely without saying anyway), I'm going to take a more specific approach related to development.
1. Bug testing, and finalizing.
All games need this, and in abundance.
It doesn't matter how pretty your game is, how good the soundtrack is, and how good your characters are, if your game is bugged.
Lag, clipping issues, spelling mistakes, poor balancing, engine failures or scrip failures that crash the game etc, are all things that will stop me playing your game.
2. Streamlining
If your gameplay and in-game systems are contrived I.E complex beyond what they need to be even to achieve what you were aiming for, you need to streamline.
Good menu set-ups, straight forward intuitive gameplay etc, enhances the feel of the game. Without it, I'm left feeling as if the game was designed by a bunch of trained monkeys.
3. Consistency
Consistency is the most important factor for me when it comes to telling good stories and building worlds.
If the world you build, or story you write doesn't make sense internally, I'm not going to play the game period.
I've played too many games where, after having killed a gazillion enemy soldiers, a scripted scene suddenly has my character being captured by four of those very same soldiers.
No more, seriously.
4. One distinguishable feature.
Doesn't have to be big. Doesn't have to be super-original -
But any good RPG, needs to be pitching at least one distinguishable feature that tells players that the game isn't just a clone of another game that probably did it better in first place.
5. All the other jazz that we know make a good game.
If you've got the four points above sorted out, you can start worrying about the other stuff mentioned in this thread.
Not saying you should start bug testing before you've written your story mind you - simply saying you should have a good plan for dealing with these points throughout development, because if you don't, it will show in the finished product, and I and many others won't be playing if that's the case.
The reason I use this points rather than the general sentiments on story and soundtrack etc, is due to the extremely subjective nature of those elements.
Case in point, some people love FF8's story, I hated it. Some people think the star ocean soundtrack is better than the suikoden, again, I don't.
Telling someone they need a good soundtrack, unless you're specifically talking about quality of sound and other technicalities, is like telling people they need to make a delicious pie - it doesn't tell us how to make it, and doesn't account for target audience.
People don't read good stories, they read stories about stuff they like and are interested in, and then they rationalize it after the fact. Same with music.
So I suspect I could make a game satisfying many people's conception of what constitutes a good RPG, yet nobody would actually plat it if it failed the points on my list.
Not a criticism of the previous posters, I'm just playing the devils advocate here, to give people something to think about. Cheers.
#1: Great, interesting/complex systems(This is byfar the most important aspect, a general rule of thumb in RPGs, the more complex, the better, there are some exceptions, but unless you're a moron, this is a good rule to live by)
#2: Great mapping(horrible mapping can kill a game faster then you can say POS)
#3: Char/Story(in short a RPG with crappy char, and a worse story Isn't worth playing. Remember the meaning of RP, you're suppose to be playing as those char, so yea char/story are pretty important)
#4: Longevity/Side Quests(nothing makes a game feel more meh, then a game that is nothing but main story, and point A to B gameplay)
#5: Music(nothing gets the player in the mood, like music, plus music can very well make a scene/setting, so it enhances the story, and gameplay in general)
#1: Good, creative, awesome, cool, inspired, beautiful, pretty... MAPS! If I see well-designed maps in your screenshots, you know I'll download it.
#2: Fun Gameplay. If the RPG isn't fun. I won't play it.
#3: Well crafted story. The story could be as simple as watering your plant downstairs and I'll like it, but if it's poorly executed and played out, then you can expect some complaints. A simple/cliche story is NO excuse for poorly crafted scenes and events. This includes characters too, I like to have characters that I love, and love to hate.
#4: Interactivity. If there's very few things to interact with, well I'll get bored real quick. Sure your battle system could be fun, but... that's not purely what RPGs are about. I need something else to do with my time! Like exploration or collecting things.
#5: Everything else!!! What, you mean I HAVE to have 5 things?... Umm.... Cool equipment to give to my characters? Yes! Scrap everything I said before. Items and Equipment are NUMBER ONE!!!!!!11!!1!!11!1eleven!
But call me a hypocrite because I'm having a heck of a time trying to implement all of these into my game.... It's easier said than done... :/
Because, if you're generally speaking, everybody's going to say the same things(which in most cases goes completely without saying anyway), I'm going to take a more specific approach related to development.1. Bug testing, and finalizing.
All games need this, and in abundance.
It doesn't matter how pretty your game is, how good the soundtrack is, and how good your characters are, if your game is bugged.
Lag, clipping issues, spelling mistakes, poor balancing, engine failures or scrip failures that crash the game etc, are all things that will stop me playing your game.
2. Streamlining
If your gameplay and in-game systems are contrived I.E complex beyond what they need to be even to achieve what you were aiming for, you need to streamline.
Good menu set-ups, straight forward intuitive gameplay etc, enhances the feel of the game. Without it, I'm left feeling as if the game was designed by a bunch of trained monkeys.
3. Consistency
Consistency is the most important factor for me when it comes to telling good stories and building worlds.
If the world you build, or story you write doesn't make sense internally, I'm not going to play the game period.
I've played too many games where, after having killed a gazillion enemy soldiers, a scripted scene suddenly has my character being captured by four of those very same soldiers.
No more, seriously.
4. One distinguishable feature.
Doesn't have to be big. Doesn't have to be super-original -
But any good RPG, needs to be pitching at least one distinguishable feature that tells players that the game isn't just a clone of another game that probably did it better in first place.
5. All the other jazz that we know make a good game.
If you've got the four points above sorted out, you can start worrying about the other stuff mentioned in this thread.
Not saying you should start bug testing before you've written your story mind you - simply saying you should have a good plan for dealing with these points throughout development, because if you don't, it will show in the finished product, and I and many others won't be playing if that's the case.
The reason I use this points rather than the general sentiments on story and soundtrack etc, is due to the extremely subjective nature of those elements.
Case in point, some people love FF8's story, I hated it. Some people think the star ocean soundtrack is better than the suikoden, again, I don't.
Telling someone they need a good soundtrack, unless you're specifically talking about quality of sound and other technicalities, is like telling people they need to make a delicious pie - it doesn't tell us how to make it, and doesn't account for target audience.
People don't read good stories, they read stories about stuff they like and are interested in, and then they rationalize it after the fact. Same with music.
So I suspect I could make a game satisfying many people's conception of what constitutes a good RPG, yet nobody would actually plat it if it failed the points on my list.
Not a criticism of the previous posters, I'm just playing the devils advocate here, to give people something to think about. Cheers.
These are all great points, I agree about the debugging/beta process being a huge deal.
Yeah it's "Your 5 must-haves for an RPG" not "5 things RPG's must have", I think for the most part, music, graphics, characters, and story are all pretty much a given and the fundamental building blocks for a game. Not that they aren't all good points and indeed if not done well those parts could drag a game down. However I am more interested in hearing specifically what people like ABOUT/IN gameplay, and graphics and music, etc. Like 'good maps' is not at all specific and won't really help anyone, how about 'smaller but more diverse' or 'big open and continuous' or something like that... Just sayin :3 <3
1.) Personally I need multiple environments to explore, a diverse environment makes you feel like your on a journey through places, if your always going through the same graphics the whole time you feel like you never got anywhere. Maybe that's good for some games, but any game that is focusing on an adventure/story you should make the player feel like they're moving along.
2.) Not every single thing in sight has to respond when you press it, but items of interest should be able to be interacted with in some way. I feel like an environment where you can't inspect the things around you makes me feel like I'm not playing a role, but following a set path that I can't deviate from because there's nothing of interest outside of the plot-line. Even if it's just a tiny detail it can make that big of a difference. Sometimes I just want to wander around reading "It looks like a used coffee filter." and "This is a big fluffy bed." and whatever else might pop up randomly xD and avoid doing the plot for a bit.
3.) I'm not a huge stickler about having control over my character, if they already have a name and a face and a story I don't mind, but I'v noticed something in games where the character is already set, but you still feel a part of it. That is having an ambiguous character. You always want to be the hero (or maybe the villain) either way... besides having a goal, something to overcome, and all the necessary basics for a hero, I think it's good for them to have a personality that most people can project themselves onto. They don't need to say much, in fact in games like Legend of Zelda OOT and the Mario games, the main character says very little if absolutely nothing at all, and yet they are a set character you can't change with an obvious personality/style. You still put yourselves in their shoes, and feel like you are a part of them. I like games that allow this at any level.
4.) Crafting system of some sort are awesome, but not essential.... if your game fits having one in it, then I will be extremely happy if it does! Because for some reason, running around and getting stuff out of the environment, and using it to create things that can directly effect your character/the game is like the ultimate side-quest/distraction. It adds a good deal of game-play time too just don't make it an impossible bothersome grind for the goods!
5.) I have to agree about the debugging. Nothing turns me off to a game faster, and makes me shut it to never be opened again, then bugs, especially early on in the game while it's getting your attention. Play the beginning through extra to make sure it's flawlessly smooth. Most DEFINITELY spelling is important I don't care how old your are/if you can't spell because there's tools out there. If you have mistypes, bad grammar, and other things that make the game look like an immature child wrote the script all over, it won't usually fly for me. At least not in a commercial game.
I had a massive, detailed post, but my internet decided to eat it. Arg. Since I'm not writing that all out again, here it is in point form.
1. Consistent Visual Aesthetic: If different parts of your game don't work with each other, it will be obvious, and it will break my immersion.
2. Quality Testing: Bugs, spelling errors, balance. Beta testers are important for a reason.
3. Integrated Mechanics: Don't just give me the default system, but anything you add should work together to improve the experience.
4. Something Besides Combat: I don't care if it's decorating my lair, a well designed minigame, or what. Give me something else to draw me into your world.
5. Characters With Depth: Primary characters shouldn't be flat, and their personality and intelligence shouldn't be dictated by the plot. Even secondary characters can benefit from a quirk or two.
good aesthetic sense. I've played games were a good, solid audiovisual design saved or contextualized mediocre gameplay, and contextualize the feel of gameplay to a stage that they can't really be separated too far from being an actual aspect in having good gameplay. Still, a unique, standout aesthetic sense grabs my attention more than anything, and in rpg maker communities, something other than the RTP is inherently very eye-catching to me. (don't argue with me about this, the rtp is fine, especially for free games. besides there are other topics to argue about this )
mid-length games have been my thing lately. i can't be bothered with games longer than 10 hours lately, this includes game i pay for, commercial games, triple a games, not just indie games. the last games i've played for longer than 10 hours are games i've played for a second time, or for a 100% run, or something. So not too long, if you're promising a 20-hour epic i'll probably give you a miss. a lot of other people prefer longer games, so don't let my preference bug you if you're a dev. but maybe let it reassure you there's a market for games that aren't 20 hour epics?
cool writing. duh. there's certain character archetypes i'm attracted too, but i can find a soft spot for any character written well. diverse writing also attracts me. and, and if your main character looks like cloud strife or doomguy or their offspring, i'm not likely to play the game pretty much
some unique factor, something your game has that you can't find elsewhere, an X factor of sorts i guess.
everything. everything in the world, i will not play a videogame if it does not contain everything ever. the end
Ok, five things i want in a maker-rpg in order to play it:
1. Good dialouge/overall presentation
For me it is not so much the actual plot or the twists in the story, that keep me going (though they don't hurt) but how the story is presented to me. And a big part of this is the written dialouge, regardless if it is a simple npc, in-party dialouge or in an important story scene.
I also don't mean spelling or grammar errors, but if the dialouge looks like being written by a 12-year old or like the characters are just walking sticks i will not continue playing the game.
Writing good dialouge is not easy and takes practice, but i consider it something everyone should try to do (unless they are making a dungeon crawler).
If the dialouge is well written and the story sequences are well presented (good music choice for example) then i don't care if the story itself is cliche or not.
2. No (bad) world map
I'm not a huge fan of world maps, though i understand why they are used. If you have to use a world map, make it a good one, that is appealing to the eye. Just because its a world map doesn't mean all the rules for good mapping don't apply anymore. If i leave an area and find myself in a large empty landscape i don't think "cool, i can explore" i think "where the hell am i supposed to go?" and will probably quit.
Best of all is if there is no world map or if it is only used for vehicle-travel or showing the course of automated travel.
3. Character customisation
I'm a huge fan of customizing my characters. I don't care wether it is through classes, attributes or even equipment i would like to have say in how the characters develop or specalize. If the grow is purely linear, in stats, skills and equipment it becomes boring.
4. Interactivity over story-telling
To tell the story sometimes the player has to give the control out of hand and just watch what is happening on the screen, that is ok. But it is still a game and as a player i want to play the game, not watch it. So keep these story-sequences short and in moderation. 10-minutes sequences are a no-go, not only in the beginning, but even during the game. Maybe the ending can be the exception, but otherwise keep it short and to the point so i can get back to the action.
5. Sidequests/optional stuff
A linear rpg is fine but sometimes i may want to level up before progressing or collect some money to upgrade my gear. Since killing random monsters without purpose (grinding) is not fun in the long run there should be optional quests or stuff i can do. Killing monsters in a dungeon for a quests feels better than just wandering around and killing random monsters, even though it is basicly the same.
This is probably a strange one, but I've played games in the past which felt a lot longer than they should've been and felt extremely padded and repetitive. Other times I played games which were over too quickly and left me feeling unsatisfied. This also includes the sidequests and optional stuff. I think it's important to get that balance right. Sometimes players might feel like doing optional content, other times they might not care for it and just want to get on with the main story. There should be enough for everyone.
1. A character I can latch onto in a way that I either relate to them or find them fantastically awesome. This is different than simply good character writing; you could have wonderfully written characters, but if not one of them falls into my personal preferred character archetypes I will get bored and stop playing. It's the number one reason I give up on games of any sort.
2. The ability to spoil said character over then main character. If can't give this character all the best stuff and make them a more valuable member of my team compared to anyone else then I will feel slighted and annoyed as the game forces me to keep my new found character locked in inferiority compared to someone with more plot importance
3. Some form of quick travel. I am an especially lazy gamer because any game time takes away from my time to draw and that leaves me antsy and ridden with guilt. The more I realize that I am wasting vast amounts of time walking between two places over and over the more fidgety and annoyed I get and my likelyhood to simply quit the game midwalking without saving is high.
4. Maps and worlds with enough details that I can run around and talk loudly about pointless things like the NPCs livelihoods. Despite how much ibhate wasting time, I enjoy running around lived in environments and analyzing dumb things like the architecture and what everyone has on their bookshelves and what that means for them as a person. Spaces that look lived in are a weakness.
5. consistent graphic style. If I am seeing sprites and other graphics of a different style trying to work together I am. So done. I will rage for 80 hours. A lack of consistency in graphics is jarring, breaks the immersion-- and is just blah. Graphics that work well together and harmonize and have colour balances that play off each other well and don't make your sprites hard to see etc are inviting and easier to get lost in. So graphic consistency is a must.
And there is my entirely self satisfying list of things in RPGs I can't be without. Bonus points if the character mentioned in point 1 wears glasses *^*
Hehe, not at all. I actually had some triple A games in mind when mentioning that point. I think your game is fine for the most part. It might be a bit heavy on optional content at the end, but then again, it's optional content and players can choose to ignore it.
Also, since some people mentioned earlier about clarifying on the points of 'good visuals' and 'good soundtrack', I thought I'd explain my own view of it.
By good visuals I meant first of all good mapping. I think most of us here can agree on what good mapping is. It's a lot nicer to play a game where maps look pleasing to the eyes, have some depth to them, look lively, give appropriate mood and atmosphere to the player, aren't too empty but at the same time aren't too crowded either. And also as mentioned above, consistent art style is very important.
With soundtrack it can be really subjective (in fact same goes for visuals too), but then again, let's keep in mind that the question in this topic is 'YOUR 5 must haves in an RPG', and hence subjectivity will come into play here, because to me personally music that I like to listen to is important in a game, but the same soundtrack might not appeal to another person. However, I can put forward some less subjective points as well.
The music, just as the visuals, has to give out appropriate mood and atmosphere and to fit the game's setting, whether it's high fantasy, dystopian sci-fi, horror, and so on. Also, many of us can probably agree that heavy use of RTP tracks do not qualify as 'a good soundtrack'. Not because RTP is bad. It's just we've all heard those tracks a million of times by now and so they no longer feel 'unique'. Sure, maybe it's not so bad for our first game, since it's usually a game when we're just learning the engine, but after that it's nice to just have something else and more specific to our project. Another thing I am not fond of when it comes to soundtrack is when RM projects use music from popular games or any other popular media. If I can recognize where the music is from, then it's immersion-breaking for me.
Anyway, that's my view. I am sure someone else can probably add other points to the ones I raised (or debate these ones).
Humor. A game needs humor. Even if it's a serious game, there should be some wise-cracks or puns.
A well-rounded cast. If your characters aren't good, your story won't be good. Therefore, this is a must.
The ability to save anywhere (or at least before something important happens). This one should be obvious. No one wants to spend an hour slogging through a dungeon only to lose to a boss and having to do it all over again. Sometimes people will just ragequit your game then and there and never finish it, and we don't want that.
A unique plot. Sure, a well rounded cast is nice. But if all they're doing is saving the princess, there's not really much of a point. Unless you add some serious self-depreciating humor.
A debugged game. No one wants to run into a bug or a spelling error. Ever. Debug your games or get someone else to do it for you, but no game should go untested.
Habadee habadee habadee habadee uh that's all, folks!
so hopefully tomorrow i get to go home from the hospital i've been here for 5 days already and it's driving me mad. I miss my family like crazy but at least I get to use my own toiletries and my own clothes. My mom is coming to visit soon i can't wait to see her cause i miss her the most.
Cartoonier cloud cover that better fits the art style, as well as (slightly) improved blending/fading... fading clouds when there are larger patterns is still somewhat abrupt for some reason.
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