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Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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The world is a sexist world... so what's the problem with a game that is sexist? Especially when the time period that it was based on was a very sexist time period too?
 
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Deep Thought

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This is getting awkward. I'll redirect the conversation to another concept that befuddles me: the Luddite Rule, "Technology is inherently evil". Is making a robot army as bad as making a zombie army? In some settings, yes. It's particularly jarring when the player is somehow exempted from this aside from "it's cool". DOES NOT COMPUTE.
 

Erilex

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The world is a sexist world... so what's the problem with a game that is sexist? Especially when the time period that it was based on was a very sexist time period too?
The problem is you. You are the problem. "The world is sexist, so what's wrong about legitimizing that sexism through a game?" Are you seriously asking that? 

Also whenever you use a scarcely documented (hence the "dark ages") time period as a justification for "realistic" sexism, remember that history was mostly written by men with a vested interest on denying women any and all relevance. 
 

Chaos Avian

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Should I just send everyone to oblivion by providing a TV Tropes link here?

Anyway one trope that bugs me somewhat is Gilligan's Prescription.  Memory loss/ amnesia and they will be cured but it turns out they were an absolute prick before and hates that. I'd like to see if they actually went back to being that person once in awhile.

Plus the whole "Oh this door is locked/ rock is in the way/ the chair is blocking my path" really grates me, because it ALWAYS means I'll have to trudge through an unnecessary dungeon, fight hordes of monsters and fight a boss if I'm lucky when the party could easily break down said door, crush said rock or PICK UP THE DAMN CHAIR AND MOVE IT.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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@Erilex - I think you're either misunderstanding something or you just don't read correctly. I never said the word legitimate, so don't you ever add things that I never said... especially when you're quoting me... I was merely asking WHY IS IT WRONG (possibly because I am so dumb at these things to know the answer).


For the record, asking why something is wrong is not equal to saying that it is right.


PS: Unless you can really make both sexes as complete equals, anyone can say that something is sexist, no matter how simple of a thing it might be.
 
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Alexander Amnell

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Also whenever you use a scarcely documented (hence the "dark ages") time period as a justification for "realistic" sexism, remember that history was mostly written by men with a vested interest on denying women any and all relevance. 
   So what you are saying is... we can't trust documentation that the dark ages were a particularly sexist period of history because the people in charge who controlled said documentation at the time were sexist? How did this conversation even take this turn, from discussing whether a trope is inherently sexist or not to arguing whether sexism is appropriate or not in games? Let's just end the unnecessary polarizing and move on, seriously, we're not even talking in terms of tropes anymore and people are passionately skewing other peoples opinions into a position that they clearly never held to begin with. 

   A few others I've decided I hate.

Checkpoint starvation: This trope is only a good thing if you don't want people to play your game, because I won't for long when I keep having to start over because I don't have enough time to get from point A to point b before stopping.

Turns Red: Seriously, why do bosses have to get stronger at low hp and oftentimes kill me out of nowhere with completely new moves that I wasn't expecting having fought it for ten minutes without seeing before? Just make the damn thing at full strength from the beginning and let me struggle to beat it the whole way, how is major blood loss and combat exhaustion supposed to translate into more powerful anyway? 

One Stat Rule: Whereby you have a particular stat or couple of stats in a game that is so useful it just makes leveling other stats instead redundant and foolish. Why even have stats that are unnecessary?

Suicidal Overconfidence: Seriously though, lv 1 slimes attack lv 1 player, tough fight but player wins. Fast forward 10 hours and the player is back in an old area collecting new things with some skill or item he got. Another lv 1 slime sees the party of lv 47 characters and thinks "I'll just jump out and waste 20 seconds of their time, then my buddies will do likewise a couple of minutes later, slimey suicide pact ftl!" Save a slime, turn off overleveled encounters.
 
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Chaos Avian

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I can see this becoming yet another "Females in/ represented/ seen _______ < insert word or phrase" topic...
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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Save a slime, turn off overleveled encounters.
yeah, that will be good... or change encounters if possible... At least on a few ABS (if I remember right), low level enemies run at the sight of higher leveled characters


PS: we really need to pursue the Save the Slimes movement... Lolz
 
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Ms Littlefish

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Should I just send everyone to oblivion by providing a TV Tropes link here?

Anyway one trope that bugs me somewhat is Gilligan's Prescription.  Memory loss/ amnesia and they will be cured but it turns out they were an absolute prick before and hates that. I'd like to see if they actually went back to being that person once in awhile.

Plus the whole "Oh this door is locked/ rock is in the way/ the chair is blocking my path" really grates me, because it ALWAYS means I'll have to trudge through an unnecessary dungeon, fight hordes of monsters and fight a boss if I'm lucky when the party could easily break down said door, crush said rock or PICK UP THE DAMN CHAIR AND MOVE IT.
I also hate blocks though I understand when they may be necessary sometimes. A lot of games have open maps so they may need to create something in the plot that prevents you from walking into an area of the map that is intended for a much later time and you'll get wrecked by the encounters. Though I'd say it would be more funny and just as effective to let the player learn the hard way to not go that direction. But no, I hate it when there is something in the way just for the sake of making you go through a dungeon. And the sole objective of that dungeon is getting 'the thing' and offers almost no plot advancement. Also, if I say, have a mage in my party; why can't they just burn/blow up that door?
 
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Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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Another thing, IDK if it's registered or what but it quite bugs me (a bit of the reverse situation of the "young hero with no battle experience defeats the monster that even the best knights cannot)


So it already happened, you defeated the monster than not even the whole army can, and then you get framed up for something and when the knights come to get you, you can't even defeat them...


In a sense, it becomes a double trope or a linked trope
 
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amerk

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Another thing, IDK if it's registered or what but it quite bugs me (a bit of the reverse situation of the "young hero with no battle experience defeats the monster that even the best knights cannot)

So it already happened, you defeated the monster than not even the whole army can, and then you get framed up for something and when the knights come to get you, you can't even defeat them...

In a sense, it becomes a double trope or a linked trope
The thing about that is you have to separate the game play from the story. That makes it a bit easier to swallow. Otherwise, it's no different than several other game play mechanics that don't work in the story (such as when a character is killed via the story when the player could previously revive them). Trying to blend game play with the story is okay if done right, but quite often the trek to realism winds hurting the game even more.
 

Sharm

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Man, I hate it so much when you kill a monster or show your awesome powers and the whole village bullies you. It's like the entire place is full of stupid suicidal people. "Hey, this guy just saved all of you from something that would make you all dead, so now's a great time to show your thanks by making him want to kill you too! Ganging up will totally keep you safe and free from guilt!" You'd think there'd be at least one person in the village going "Um guys, are you all mental?" Sometimes I wish there'd be an "oh no my village" after that because they've already proven everyone in the village is to stupid to live.
 

amerk

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Reminds me of the whole Wild Arms scene. You save the village using a piece of technology they deem cursed, and they all turn on you as a result and call you a monster.
 

whitesphere

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There is some degree of justification for Turns Red.  Adrenaline can make someone able to do things they couldn't imagine before.  If a boss suddenly panics that boss might become unusually strong, at the expense of, say, defense.

As for the "arbitrary blocks to prevent passage," I don't like those either, unless they have good justification, such as "The mine was sealed and only the king has the key."    At least make the blocks meaningful in a plot sense, and not something the party could reasonably go around or through (yes, a party capable of defeating a dragon SHOULD be able to smash a wooden door down).

I definitely remember being annoyed in Chrono Trigger when the hero could easily defeat the opponents (especially in New Game Plus), yet the knights easily arrested him when he was framed for a crime.  "Sure, you're strong enough to defeat the Big Bad, but us 3 knights are going to arrest you."  
 

Sharm

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Wild Arms was one of the ones that bothered me, especially since only a few scenes earlier they seemed to adore everything he did. Secret of Mana too, although there were a couple of people going "Yeah, we shouldn't be doing this, but I'm afraid of what they'll do to me if I say so."


The arresting scene didn't bug me too much in Chrono Trigger. It seemed like he was letting them arrest him to me. Crono's a good kid after all, I'm sure he wanted his name cleared in the trial and only fought his way out after that didn't go so well.
 

omen613

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I'll bite

That boss you get to fight with 34000000001 HP and omega damage moves joins your group later in the game and their stats are nothing like they were when you fought them.
 

Touchfuzzy

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I'm with hian. Its about how its executed, not what is executed.
 

hian

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I'm with hian. Its about how its executed, not what is executed.
Glad to hear it lol. Perspective is such an awesome thing to have when engaging with art or media. It allows you to see greatness were others can't or won't, and it makes the world a richer place. Not saying most people here lack perspective, just that it's important to remember that messages really do change depending on your outlook *looks at the people who think damsels in distress are inherently sexist*
 

Omnimental

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I definitely remember being annoyed in Chrono Trigger when the hero could easily defeat the opponents (especially in New Game Plus), yet the knights easily arrested him when he was framed for a crime.  "Sure, you're strong enough to defeat the Big Bad, but us 3 knights are going to arrest you."  
See, that one actually made sense to me.  It wasn't so much about not being able to overpower the guards as much as the protagonist is a Good Guy, and running from the legitimate authority over a crime he KNOWS he's innocent of is not a Good thing to do.  His options were: kill the guards who technically didn't do anything wrong, run and become an actual fugitive, or go with them and hope to work things out within the system.

As to the topic at hand... my biggest beef is lack of gameplay and story integration.  It's really not that difficult to have mechanics that work inside of the story.  It's a little more work, but the end result is just so much better feeling to me.
 

zacheatscrackers

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I hate:

The Rival (this could kinda apply to media in general, but I think it works for this topic enough to be mentioned) - if there's a LEGITIMATE REASON other than jealousy that this guy is against the hero while ostensibly being on the good side, then that's okay, but otherwise I can't stand this trope. It's really just conflict for the sake of conflict

Damage Sponge Bosses/Enemies - unless the boss/enemy has a cool moveset and is INTERESTING TO FIGHT, along with being challenging but not overly so (the bunker from Borderlands 2 and Shadow Queen from Paper Mario 2, for example), extremely long boss fights are otherwise one of my pet peeves

Fake Longevity/Difficulty - want to add difficulty and make your game long? Don't pad out boring segments and repeat the hell out of them and don't shoehorn in constant Luck-Based Missions

I love:

Boss Banter/Hopeless Boss Battle - when both are done well (Lavos, Gilgamesh), it can seriously hammer home how dangerous/cool a character is and add a great deal of suspense, especially with the latter trope, when the battle progresses closer and closer to the end

Repeatable Quest - I really, really like a quest, and the game lets me do it again. That's pretty sweet

Level Scaling - adds a certain challenge depth that I find fascinating for some reason. Fallout 3 in particular does it really well; it's best explained on the page itself.
 
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