Your game needs more than just Battles!

[mardin]

Hey Guys, I need your help!


I am working on a game which focuses less on battles and more on other things like puzzles and minigames. But since I need a lot of different puzzles and minigames I would love to hear what you guys use to add variety to your game or what you really enjoyed in rpg maker games you played. Here is what I have used so far:


Puzzles with Switches: Pressing Buttons/switches in the right order, Moving Boulders and statues to the right places etc.


Courier: Bring Object A from Person B to Person C. Simple.


Pacman: Avoid a bunch of enemies while you are trying to get to the exit of the labyrinth. Alternative: Find a way out before the time runs out


Collect X: Find X Items hidden on different places


Oral Examination: Someone tests your knowledge/intelligence with simple multiple choice questions


Sneaking: Avoid the Guards. Don't get in their Line of Sight and avoid the light.


Minigames: Implementing Minigames for variety. Like Sixth's Mini Games or the Sliding Block Puzzle for example.


Against the time: Move to different persons/switches or collect X items before the time is runs out


That is all I can think of right now. I would love some fresh ideas because I'm sure I am missing something obvious.

 

[GoodSelf]

Hey there!  I have a tutorial on Designing Puzzles, as well as two unique puzzle tutorials you can try out for yourself =D
Hopefully they will help you! 

 

[mardin]

Hey there!  I have a tutorial on Designing Puzzles, as well as two unique puzzle tutorials you can try out for yourself =D
Hopefully they will help you! 

Yes, great! Exactly what I mean, especially the Light's Out Puzzle! Thanks! That will work for VX Ace too I guess?

 

[reborn2956]

Hello,


The thing that gets me hyped a lot about RPG games are Easter eggs, hidden references, more depth to NPC conversations, and much much much (yes,  I need to say it 3 times) more substance to character development.


To elaborate, RPG would feel more fun if there are Easter eggs around that players can encountered using various subtle hints given by NPCs. Such as but not limited to, directions to obtain powerful weapon in a place players tend to overlook.


For hidden references, I refer to dialogues that contain references to the modern world in a not so fourth wall breaking way (not in an extreme way like Deadpool because that just another class of his own). For example, insert some famous quotes in situations that fit it like "The player is the hero the town deserves, but not the one it needs".

For NPC conversations, it would be nice to have NPCS to be able to have multiple dialogues rather than just some simple texts. These dialogues do not necessarily have to be related to quests or anything, it can be just pure comedy gold in general.

As for character dialogue, it would be really awesome if your party members can actually talk and converse with NPCs, not some mute deaf robots that follow you around and are only allow to talk if there are cut scenes.

By character development, shows the character growth in a not so comical/rushed way, well, I'm not sure how to explain this one lol so let's just skip this.

But anyways, the things listed above are just my taste.

 

[Sardonic]

I like to add riddles to my games.  It works best if you can write good ones that are original of course, and they must be balanced so that they are not too difficult and not too easy.  That or you can make it so the player can choose a different route if they cannot figure out the riddle(particularly in dungeons).  I like doing this because I personally find solving riddles pretty satisfying, and it is really easy to create a basic riddle solve event too(using actor name change).  Plus anything that makes the player pause and think a bit is better than just another grinding battle.  


That being said I also agree with reborn2956 in regard to character development.  A game can have many weaknesses but if its characters really come alive that can cause people to look past a lot of them.  On the other hands stale characters is kind of an unforgivable offense(for me at least).  I mean, even a relatively simple/boring dungeon can be made better simply by some well written chatter between characters.  Good characters can really glue a game together, I think.

 

[GoodSelf]

Yes, great! Exactly what I mean, especially the Light's Out Puzzle! Thanks! That will work for VX Ace too I guess?

Yup, shouldn't be a problem =]

 

[LuLingqi1]

For me, what I have is a deep universe. There's a mythos that would take more than one playthrough to fully understand. There are also multiple ending paths. I haven't gotten far enough into the design yet, as I'm focusing on getting all the classes created. For now, I have lots of hidden secrets, that I think are pretty cool. Most of them are required to get to the true end, while others are just fun little nods to other games.


Dialogue is one thing I think is super great. I have a lot of dialogue. From gab, to story text, it's all pretty useful for me.

 

[mardin]

Yes, of course dialogue and depth of the characters are important in a rpg game. I especially like @reborn2956s idea. Is it possible to speak with your teammates? It would be easy to implement something like Mass Effect: After every mission you go back to your hideout/station and you can chat with your companions to increase (or lose) their trust.


But if you want to do it like in dragon age: origins, where you can speak with your teammates during the mission, how do you do that in RPG Maker?

 

[Blackyu]

I'm probably gonna say what everyone already listed but I'll still give my thoughts about this question :


If you don't want your game to focus on battles, you have to make it immersive. Of course, immersion itself isn't related to how battles are managed in the game, but by various things that can add more or less variety, depending on the type of game you're creating.


-Original characters. Ever heard of that cliché where the main protagonist is a boy who lived in [Random Town] and decided to go on an adventure, guided by either the steps of his lost family member or by a mage ? That's one of the flattest lazy clichés you'll encounter in some RPGs. Of course, they worked for years until people realized it was boring. The number one thing to do to make a game immersive is asking yourself "Are my characters unique ? Are they memorable ? Is their personal lore enough for the player to feel empathy or compassion for them ? Is their personality iconic ?". If you want a silent protagonist, okay, but he must have an actual story, either told by numerous flashbacks or by some NPC dialogues, not just a flat "I want to save the world because reasons" kind of thing. So, the point is, you can use "generic" character traits, but at least make the characters themselves interesting, by adding more to their personality, by making a detailed story for them, or giving them a small but unique trait. (a certain phobia, for example)


-NPC Design. A thing that a lot of big companies forget to do. It's an essential part of immersion, no matter the game. NPCs should always have interesting dialogue. I've seen other people comment about the importance of dialogue sequences in games, so I'll be fast : Dialogues must add something to the game, whether it is a joke, a detail about something or someone, an easter egg or reference to a popular game/movie/whatever, anything, really, as long as it is more than a simple sentence that doesn't have any importance whatsoever.


-Sound Design. The Sound Design, which includes any type of music or sound, is a really important part of immersion. I'll ask you to do a simple test : Take a game of your collection, and remove every single BGM, every single sound effect. Then play the game. You'll immediately notice it is way harder to immerse yourself in this universe if there isn't any kind of musical background. Then, another test : Always put the same music everywhere. On every single map, event or anything. You'll get tired of the lack of variety in Background Music, and it will make your immersion harder. Believe me, no matter the size of the game, the Sound Design is way more iconic than it seems. A beautiful, but misplaced music will always seem odd and slow immersion. Imagine a "final"-type map. Imagine the last map you will see right before the final battle. Of course, if you imagine the native BGM for this map, you will often come up with something epic, representing the end of the journey. This music, no matter how many times you will hear it in the future, will remind you of that final map. Maybe I was hard to understand on this one, so point is, Sound Design is important, no matter the size of the game.


-Interesting maps. Last but not least : Map Design. Imagine a map. This time, I'll just ask you to imagine a big city. Now, inside that city, imagine a house. A normal house, like any other, but the player wants to enter this house and ONLY this house. Then, you have to be rewarding. Every single house must be interesting enough for the player. Every place that might be considered as a "waste of time" by the player will just be a wasted opportunity. So, I'll link this part with the NPC Design part, because now imagine that the house would have some NPCs, every single one of them having a funny conversation with the hero. When the player leaves the house, he won't count it as a waste, even if he branched off the normal path. Because he got "rewarded" by something funny. An "interesting" map is a map that can't be removed from the game, or else it would make no sense. Your goal with Map Design, is making every single map count.


I'm a bit tired so I don't really have more ideas at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that with those 4 traits, your game can be immersive enough to not be centered around battles, but instead having everything necessary to create an environment-based game. (The two "major" game bases being "Combat-based" (No real need to explain that one) and "Environment" (This base also includes anything related to overworld puzzles.))


I also have ideas for useful mechanics to take up some game time without it being too boring or repetitive, but I plan to make a Tutorial Post explaining these.

 

[mardin]

I think Interesting Characters, Maps and good Sound Design should be in a rpg maker game, wether battles play a huge role or not

I also have ideas for useful mechanics to take up some game time without it being too boring or repetitive, but I plan to make a Tutorial Post explaining these.

Yes, this is also something I am looking for...do it fast please


I've checked it, and talking to companions is done best by "campfire" events, where you have a campfire/homebase/castle/ship etc. where you return often and talk to your buddies via events and variables (just like the campfire events in dragon age origins, loved these!).


Still need a lot of ideas for getting the player to do something in the game that he enjoys. I am testing some merchant mechanics like crafting and selling. Also a mechanic where the player gets his/her own base and can improve the base (like in pillars of eternity).


I also thought about a card game (a bit like gwint), but my scripting skill is too limited

 

[Blackyu]

I think Interesting Characters, Maps and good Sound Design should be in a rpg maker game, wether battles play a huge role or not

Of course they're useful in every game, but I just tried to point out the most important things in a game for me.


Anyway, due to some of my mechanics being HUGE (I absolutely needed the big font size), It might take some time. I'll get to it very soon.

 

[reborn2956]

Yes, of course dialogue and depth of the characters are important in a rpg game. I especially like @reborn2956s idea. Is it possible to speak with your teammates? It would be easy to implement something like Mass Effect: After every mission you go back to your hideout/station and you can chat with your companions to increase (or lose) their trust.


But if you want to do it like in dragon age: origins, where you can speak with your teammates during the mission, how do you do that in RPG Maker?

You could, but it would require a lot of clickings, switches, and testings but it would be worth it.

Basically, the general idea to have teammates speaking are just simply adding texts and then insert their faces into the text box.

Now, I do not play Mass Effect but it is possible to chat with your companions at a specific place in RPG Maker. Basically, you just have to create NPC events with your teammate sprites within your base. Now, if you have them enabled as following behind you then you must disable it when you are inside your base so that it doesn't give the impression there are two identical characters in the same room. After that, it is just a matter of using switches.

To make it clearer, let's use an example:


[mardin and reborn2956 just return to their base from a long quest,  and mardin (leader of the party) wanted to check  what reborn295 think of the mission. So, when they enter the hideout, if reborn2956 was following behind mardin, then reborn2956 will no longer hiding and will be appear at reborn2956's designated location, which is at the bed..]

Now this can be work in several different way, in the hideout map, you can create a parallel event where you disable followers and set their movement routes to move to their designate locations. Or, if it is too much of a hassle, just make the followers disappear, and have them magically appear at their designated locations whenever mardin entered the hideout.

After this is done, it just a matter of using switches, it basically depends on dialogues and missions, you have to set up switches so the character would speak relevant information regarding a specific mission. So, a lot of "If switches [            ] is turned on" moments.

If you want the whole trust thingy, you would have to set up yes/no or some kind of choices and create variables and label them as trust, humility, etc.

As for speaking to a teammate during the mission, currently the only way I know is to create an entrance map (where your teammate does not follow you and appear at certain spot much like hideout) or create cutscene and let them talk. I'm still researching how to directly talk to teammates that follow you behind you.


Complicated, I know but it would worth it.
But anyways, all the things I wrote above work for MV and I think it would also work for Ace, too.
 


Off topic:

Spoiler

I would give you a potato if we're on a different site... if you know what I mean.

 

[Sardonic]

But if you want to do it like in dragon age: origins, where you can speak with your teammates during the mission, how do you do that in RPG Maker?

I like to make a common event so that when a key is pressed the player chats with other party members.  I know some people get tired of tons of text in a game, while others like a lot of lore and information about the world and such, so I think an optional chat command is kind of useful for appealing to the latter without pushing away the former.


The dialogue itself would depend on the current set of circumstances.  Things like the current quest, past player decisions, and even basic stuff like the weather may influence the dialogue when the player chats with the party.  You could also use a popup "..." or some kind of heads-up to let players know that new chat options are available.  That's pretty much how I am doing it in my current project.

 

[mardin]

@reborn2956:

Spoiler

? I don't get it ? Potato ? I am german, we have difficulties with jokes

@Sardonic: I like that. But it would be a lot of work if your party members are more than 4 (let's say they are 9 and you can only take 3 with you...a lot of Conditional Branches would be needed so that you can talk to the person that is on a mission with you).


Now what about puzzles and minigames? Do you have a good one that you always implement in your games?


I have to say I am not really good at creating a unique, fun puzzle on my own. I am slowly learning it. I tend to look for riddles and puzzles that I enjoy, then mix them up a bit and implement them in my game. I know it is always better to come up with something unique on your own, but there are some nice tutorials for puzzles out there. Just like the Lights Out Tutorial by @GoodSelf. Got any more of these?

 

[GoodSelf]

@mardin all of the puzzles I've made for MV so far can be found here.


If you want to message me personally, I'd be happy to work on a couple of ideas with you when I have time.

 

[XIIIthHarbinger]

Personally there are two things I am focusing on with my own project, in game lore, & party member interaction.


For the in game lore I am focusing on books being readable, via interacting with them bringing up a picture that shows a page contained within the book. So if it's a book about a war that happened it discusses particular details of a battle; if it's a book about magical theory it discusses various metaphysical principles, etcetera. However, the player only has to engage with the books if they want to. If they think looking for Easter Eggs is boring, they can ignore every book shelf & book they come across. If they're like me & end up with their own library when they play Elder Scrolls, they'll be items to find in every town, ruin, & a few random loot bits as well.


As for party member interaction, I wanted the player to have the opportunity to check in with their party members, when they aren't ducking fireballs & arrows. So the town's inns, as well as the team's home base seemed ideal place for the party members to leave the hero, if only temporarily so that the hero can interact with them like any other NPC. The base for more introspective & personal moments in the party members quarters or other area of the base they feel comfortable in; where the hero & their party members discuss the larger conflict, & how they are viewing it. While the inn serves as a more extroverted & social moments, where the hero can see their party members interacting with the world they inhabit. However, again these are interactions I want the player to be able to chose whether they want to participate in them or not. 


Though I haven't decided whether or not the decision will impact the events in game, or simply be an opportunity the player didn't take advantage of. 

 

[Canini]

As for more puzzle ideas, what about some sort of adventure-game like crafting system where the player is locked inside a room and have to find tools to escape? It could be easily done with events checking if you have a certain item (for example, cut down a tree if you have a saw). My own game is full of little distractions like that are hopefully fun and give rewards for people that take the time to solve them!