Your thoughts on people having moral, ethic, or content (et al.) limits/requirements in their terms of use?

ATT_Turan

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Maybe it's not awesome, but scarce...It's like, Rpg Maker DLC. The quality assurance is non-existent. But people are willing to use it, and go through lengths to make it work.
I agree with Kes, I don't see what this has to do with the topic.

If your point is that creators placing moral exclusions on their resources is similar to some kind of policies in RPG Maker DLC that you think are bad...that is not at all clear from your post, and your whole paragraph about the French Revolution and tractors doesn't tie in at all.

I also feel it necessary to point out that, unless I've missed something, there still hasn't been an actual example given of an RPG Maker resource someone has offered with such a moral clause attached to it (aside from the very common pornographic one, which no one is likely to change).

To me, unless some such examples are provided, it makes everything said in this thread kind of irrelevant. It basically is asking "What are your thoughts on this thing that doesn't exist?" Why, yes, I think the tooth fairy is just adorable.
 

HexMozart88

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I personally put limitations on the use of my stuff in porn games all the time. Give people an inch and they'll take a mile, which in this case, tell them that they can use this art in any game they want and they'll start demanding you make explicit art for them, or word will get around that you're a lewd artist and you'll have lots of people demanding you make explicit art for them.
 

123edc

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"that 'horrible thing' cannot be associated with me."
there are - for example - anime song creators out there,
who simply don't want kids to recognize their music (in the games / trailers / openings) so, they want to prevent kids from that recognition leading them accidently playing stuff not suited for em

Don't blame me if your car got stuck to my fingers. If your car was that important, you should've nailed it down. (jk)
there is only black and white, when it comes to law
but there are a lot of grays, when it comes to morale

if you steal my car, you will get punished for it
but the type of punishment you'd get depends on the circumstances

also, any and every insurance will say a big "no, no" if you're car got stolen, if you park it with open doors and key in hole ;)

(I don't recall if I've seen a paid DLC that said no h-games).
VNM has quite a ton of no h-games dlc's available,
the whole vitamin - x, beliefer, vamwolf franchises prohibit gore and adult use for example ...

I have never seen anything to the extent that you describe, where a creator limits the use to games that have some specific political/societal/religious message.
japanese assets in general tend to include their:
"don't use it for political / religious / morally questionable / criminal" terms at the end

also, i've already seen stuff like "use for mobile prohibited" and the likes
[simply, becouse the used it on that platforms themselfs and thus wouldn't give out rights for it]

For instance "Do not criticize this product publicly"
well, true ... there the hirarchy constitution -> law -> TOU takes effect,
if there are two things, that rule each other out, then it is always the highest one taking effect ...

but, for example, i can go out and let you sign an nda - prohibiting you from speaking about the product entirely, if you want to use it ...

and that's 100% allowed ... as long, as i don't include illigal stuff within my product i can prohibit from speaking about it alltogether
 
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SigmaSuccour

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I've seen a few people in my time place terms in their content such as stating that users that do not support a certain stance on current events are not allowed to use it, or that the game cannot have certain content in it. What examples of this have you seen and what are your thoughts?


There is a fellow developer here, (on the forum) who has explicitly mentioned in their itch.io art resources, that...
they can't be used in any game that have anti-_______ (name of their country) themes or messages.


japanese assets in general tend to include their:
"don't use it for political / religious / morally questionable / criminal" terms at the end
This is true.




but if you put something on the internet you've thrown it to the wolves.
I would forbid NSFW fan-art of my characters. I understand when my work gets popular, the NSFW fan-art is coming, regardless.
So, there are three routes for me when I see such fanart:

1- Show gratitude to the artist, and encourage it.
2- Tell the artist I dislike this sort of art, discourage it.
3- Make no comments.

Each will have a different outcome.
An important part of creating terms around your product, is what you yourself encourage or discourage, which does have an effect on the outcome.
And so, is meaningful.



In addition, asking someone to take a certain political, religious, or social stance to use your product can run afoul of the laws of some nations, and would be utterly impossible to enforce that part of the terms in the first place.

Absolutely. This is why creating terms, isn't just a 'legal' thing. It's simply you, encouraging and discouraging certain behavior for users.
Just because I can't enforce my terms of "Don't create NSFW fanart of my characters" does not mean, I shouldn't do whatever I can to vocally discourage it.
Hence terms of use that can't be enforced, are intentionally there to encourage / discourage or inform. (Or signal alliance with a group, or idea.)
And so, even though they may not be enforceable. There is meaning in creating them, and being clear.
 
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JohnDoeNews

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Secondly sometimes in specific circumstances it is actually very sensible to restrict the usage of certain resources. For example I believe @JohnDoeNews created an explicitly child-friendly tileset and forbade using it in nsfw games precisely as to not entice children to play said nsfw game.

The reason I did this, is because the set is made to be used by kids or for kids games. When kids might see 1 or 2 games with my set and they have played those games, then when they see another game with the same graphics, they might think it is either the same game or a game just like it.

I think the restrictions on a set is all up to the artist. But there are limits. You can't really say things like: "Those assets can't be used by muslims" or "This set can't be used in a game about gays". That would be discrimination.
 
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Iron_Brew

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This reminds me of the "blackest black" paint usage clause wherein the terms and conditions of the specific pigment are that one specific person isn't allowed to use it because the inventor of the pigment hated that person.

P. funny if you asked me.

I guess my point here is that workers are (and should) be allowed to specify whatever terms and conditions they want for their products. If people read those terms and conditions and then purchase the product they have absolutely zero right or recourse to complain or (mis)use that product.
 

123edc

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Absolutely. This is why creating terms, isn't just a 'legal' thing. It's simply you, encouraging and discouraging certain behavior for users.
and a binding legal contract between you, and whoever uses the art

and as long as these contract doesn't stand in violation with the law (or constitution above it) you can [!] enforce it!

for that verry fact many eula's have included a "if ... then only that part shall" clause at the end

sure, it will be hard to enforce
especially, if you have to take into account different laws for different countries and getting to the person who "stole / abused" it ...

but the fact remains:
it is a valid legal contract
 

Iron_Brew

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and a binding legal contract between you, and whoever uses the art

and as long as these contract doesn't stand in violation with the law (or constitution above it) you can [!] enforce it!

for that verry fact many eula's have included a "if ... then only that part shall" clause at the end

sure, it will be hard to enforce
especially, if you have to take into account different laws for different countries and getting to the person who "stole / abused" it ...

but the fact remains:
it is a valid legal contract

I mean, people commit crimes all the time. The fact crimes are easy to commit and hard to punish doesn't mean that the law doesn't matter, or that the ethics involved aren't relevant, right?
 

JohnDoeNews

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Indeed. Terms are just that: Terms. They are not guidelines or advice, they are terms.

Even free assets can have terms and even those terms should be followed. If one does not agree to the terms, they should not touch the assets.

That doesn't just go for art, but also for music, scripts, plugins, story, etc etc.

sure, it will be hard to enforce
especially, if you have to take into account different laws for different countries and getting to the person who "stole / abused" it ...
Legally it might be hard to enforce it, but you can do something about thieves who stole your assets. The most important thing is to stop them from violating your terms. And to do that, you don't have to go to court. You can go to the platforms where the abuser is active. (Like steam, itch, gamejolt, deviantart etc. Even rpgmakerweb)

As long as you can proof you own the copyrights to the abused assets, it should be fairly easy to have the abusing project taken offline. On some platforms it would not stay with that. The abuser can be banned from the platform. I've seen that happen on facebook and on steam too.*

It's one thing for an abuser to get their project taken down. It is a complete different issue to get their whole account taken away. To make it even worse for them, platforms like instagram will let visitors of the kicked account know why the account is removed and the user is banned.

Maybe court might be out of reach for most developers, but if you want justice, you can make an abusers life very unpleasant. No matter where they live or behind what laws they hide.

*In case of the steam ban, this was a guy who got banned for selling ripped RPG maker games. The ban was executed by Valve, not by RPG maker admins. The same user came back, bragging to me how he was banned and still made $1500 per month with his ripped games on his girlfriends account. He bragged to the wrong person, though. I reported them.
Note: This was years ago, way before I became a mod on steam for RPG maker.
 

RianQuenlin

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I think it's fine to place limits on such things, or at least consider a limit...there are quite a few wolves on the Internet that are all too happy to hunt down anyone or anything associated with a controversial if not outright bigoted project or person, regardless of context.

And me personally? I don't want my work used for evil. Be it social or...any other kind of evils. It's my right to tell certain people, "no, you cannot use this work in relation to [insert problematic thing]"
 

Vati

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Terms such as "no pornographic content" can be of interest to both the artist and the buyer as well. Someone who buys assets to use in their game might not want others playing said game to associate it with other porn games that they have seen using it on the steam store or something. There can be a myriad of reasons.

In the end it's just up to the creator. And uses of such terms outside of the porn context is so rare anyway, that it's not much to get up in arms about.
 

Milennin

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Not like I'm a major content creator, but I made a few smaller things for people here and there and stuff I put out there is free for people to use (as long as they don't sell it or take credit for it themselves), and personally I couldn't care less what my stuff is used for. But if other people do, then I guess they can include it in their terms of use.
I don't have to agree with or like the games people would use my content for, but I value freedom of use highly.
 

Tai_MT

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Personally, I think whatever limits people want to impose on things they've created is fine. I simply abide by the rules they set forth. No asset is so amazing that it must be used by me. I can find alternatives.

As echoed before:

If I don't like it, I go elsewhere. What good is something if I'm not allowed to use it for the thing I want to use it for?

It's akin to buying a car and it has some device or something in it that prohibits it from starting or running between the hours of 5:00 p.m. and 8 a.m.. Thus, making it useless to travel to and from work. Why would anyone WANT to buy something that restricts the reason they want it in the first place?

I don't understand the mentality, I guess?

If I want an asset for use in X project, and X project has Y thing in it, I'm not going to look for Y thing in places that prohibit me from using it for X project. I'm just not. I do not feel that entitled to the work of others.

As for, "I want to stop it from being used for evil or hurtful things!". Eh... it's a moot point.

Put simply...

No matter what you do and how "good" you are, you are going to hurt someone with it. Someone will find a way to weaponize it for "nefarious" purposes. Whatever definition of "nefarious" and "evil" your culture uses (because morals aren't absolute, they are malleable and dependent on what your society values and enforces... thus they are merely a matter of perspective).

Welcome to the human race. What we do best is weaponize everything. Our first instinct upon seeing any new technology is "how can we use this to hurt someone?" or "how can I use this to cause destruction?". Humanity in a nutshell. Even those who might say, "I don't think like that!" still have the urges to weaponize their own words in debates and arguments. The human race is uniquely designed to cause pain and suffering.

Tangent aside (and no, I'm not going to entertain any replies that speak upon the tangent of weaponizing everything, because it is merely hyperbole to illustrate my point), you will inevitably hurt someone with your creation. Intentional or not.

Someone will take offense to it. Someone will have a different opinion. Someone will use what you have in a way you did not foresee or agree with or intend.

Your terms are yours. You are welcome to use them to mitigate potential damage and I applaud you for doing so. Nothing wrong with some great PR work before it becomes a problem.

I just don't understand the naive viewpoint of "I don't want my work associated with evil things or things that hurt people!". If you try to please everyone, you will inevitably please noone.

What you think of as "moral" today, may be insanely immoral in 50 years. Or 20.

Morals shift, skewed and influenced not by logic or reason, but by emotion. Well, most of the time.

Protect yourself and your products with your Terms of Service. Just please don't operate under the naive viewpoint of "I want to stop my stuff from being used for evil!" when evil isn't even defined except by whomever is in charge.
 

Arthran

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If I had to say, I'm not particularly a fan of people placing content restrictions on their resources, and I personally don't see myself ever doing such a thing for anything that I might release. It just seems unnecessarily meddlesome and controlling to me, and I don't really understand that mindset.

But, that being said, when you're in somebody else's house, you need to follow their rules--regardless of whether or not you understand or agree with those rules. Similarly, if somebody creates a resource and shares it with the community, you need to follow their rules in order to use it--how you or I feel about those rules is irrelevant.
 

JohnDoeNews

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It's not necessarily controlling. I think the biggest issue is not wanting to be associated with something.

Lets say I release cool military assets and someone downloads the assets to make a pro nazi game. Then my name would be in the credits of a pro nazi game. This is an extreme example, of course. But the same goes for NSFW games. Or political games.

That being said, I don't have those kind of restrictions on any of my stuff other than the child friendly tilesets (which I guess speak for itself).
 

Gunmetal_Dreams

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It's one of those things, to create something, and find someone is using it in something you find distasteful,surely can't be easy. Yes it happens when you put your creation out there, but still as an end user, we also need to have some respect.
 

Popoto_milk

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Their content, their rules. Totally fair, especially if we're talking about controversial or NSFW things. Creatives should always have control over what they put out.

That said, overly restrictive/narrow limits are dumb. Because what's the point of releasing something if few people are even eligible to use it?
 

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