Your Ultimate Antagonist?

[Reynard Frost]

Hello folks,

What do you think it takes to make an excellent antagonist? What about their personality, abilities, outlook, and mission inspires you to want to stop them? To defeat them? (Or alternatively, to join them?)

Share your thoughts below.

 

[Sailerius]

They have to have an interesting goal and an interesting motivation. They're driven to accomplish whatever it is they're doing, so it better damn well be something I can believe someone would dedicate their lives to. I can't stand villains who are just evil for the sake of being evil, or who are just "embodiments of chaos" or other such trite nonsense. Villains should be people.

 

[Espon]

Depends on the type of story.

In personal stories I kinda like the misguided villains, be it through their own issues or an outside force...it makes them seem less evil through their eyes and might give the hero the motivation to help them instead of outright killing them.

If the story is more political then I generally prefer some lesser nobody that rises to power through his/her own efforts and then takes advantage of it...possibly old friend of the hero.

Although almost any type of villain can work if written properly...almost. The typical embodiments of evil or the evil dude who's just flat-out evil are boring and would need one hell of a backstory to make them interesting. I usually like to know their reasons why they want to kill off the human race or where they came from (other than human hatred).

I've used the "evil dude who's evil" once, but he does have a large backstory...it's just kinda hard to put it into a 3 hour game without boring the player so I tossed it as after-game content (but still didn't fully elaborate on it).

 

[RyanA]

They have to have an interesting goal and an interesting motivation. They're driven to accomplish whatever it is they're doing, so it better damn well be something I can believe someone would dedicate their lives to. I can't stand villains who are just evil for the sake of being evil, or who are just "embodiments of chaos" or other such trite nonsense. Villains should be people.

Not all villains are people though, maybe there is some mythical beast who just wants to eat everybody's bodies, or maybe the person does just want everyone to die. Villains without goals make sense and fit in certain occasions. For example, Lavos in Chrono Trigger, Sauron, WH40K Orks (they'z iz just made for da killin') and many others.

Though I agree with you that villain's goals should be beleivable. It's nice to have a story to the villains, but I don't mind too much as long as the player/viewer/whatever is drawn in to stopping them! :3

 

[Levi]

I can't speak for a "person" as an antagonist. Really, any personality that clashes with mine (which are many) will grind my gears and gets me a fightin'.

But I like non-person antagonists. The idea of "non-person" antagonist is severely under-used. I think it's because it is easier to say "This guy is bad. Stop him" ...and because it is easier to resolve.

John is bad. You killed John. Victory!

Look at the book "Siddartha". The main character (Siddartha) is the protagonist and antagonist. And it was executed wonderfully. How about the idea of involving yourself in a revolution! A political, or social revolution. Where inequality (racism, sexism etc) is the antagonist. Or corruption! Where the world is the antagonist!

But like I said, few people seem to have the desire, or facilities, or time to flesh out a story that isn't as simple as needing to killing a person. [Edit - I don't mean to say that any Villain isn't well thought out, or didn't take time/effort to make. There are many games that took remarkable effort to make as far as story, that still relied on the "Kill this guy" path. I'm just just saying that it is 'easier' to resolve a story when the main goal is the death of a person as opposed to an unseen or non-living antagonist.]

My game will not have an Antagonist.

 

[crimcrim]

The easiest way to make an exceptional antagonist?

Don't make him inherently evil. Give him enough back story so his malicious intentions have a sincere reason behind them. Granted, sometimes the usual psycho ****** who just wants the world to burn isn't a BAD thing, but it definitely isn't as interesting. Have the player feel for your villain and either want to kill him desperately or spare the finishing blow out of pity, THAT'S a good villain.

 

[Rayhaku808]

Heh, I would form my villain from my protagonist. He(she) can do all the good and cliche things in the world but when it comes to stopping the final threat, he(she) is shown a glimpse of the future and chooses to use his(her) power for misguided purposes. His(her) love interest must now stop him(her) despite their feelings towards the protagonist(who is now the antagonist). The antagonist dies, theeeeee end.

 

[Kaiser]

Hmm. The ultimate antagonist needs a few things. One of them is motive. Either it is to destroy the world, conquer it, or the sick sick pleasure and twisted kick of seeing the protagonist writhe in dispair and sorrow he/she needs it for that drive. The antagonist can't also just pop in out of nowhere and say "Hello I am Villian" that does not work. You need build up...and the most important thing. Brains!

The villian has to be smart! No more of the dumb villian or the batman way of thinking that the villian knows the hero will succeed and not have a back up plan if the hero does not suceed. Really screw over the hero at any given chance, and also to piss off the player. A good villian is Kessler from Infamous in terms of being a smart villian and able to piss you off, but Green/Blue from pokemon even though he is not a villian he carries something most villians need. Even though you beat him, he's still gonna be better than you in the end and just piss you off. Or even Kuja from Final Fantasy IX which is impossible to defeat him! You can never win against Kuja!

But it does depend on story. Depending on what the writer wants is what the villian will be. Villian gotta be strong but dumb? Sure, Villian all brains but screws up alot? Sure just don't let him be Wily or Robotnick smart.

 

[Levi]

Edit: Useless and unproductive rant ahead.

One of them is motive. Either it is to destroy the world, conquer it,

Those are more appropriate as action, not motives, in my opinion.

If the action is to destroy the world... then there is a motive for it. That makes sense. But if a person's motive is having the world destroyed, that means they intend, primarily, to carry out some other action...

But I agree. Though, simply having motive isn't necessarily enough. Having a believable, understandable motive is key in my opinion. If you can't at the very least understand why a villain is doing what he/she does, or sympathize to some extent, then something may be wrong. Sure... villains that are simply evil/demented/sick can work. I mean, they occur in real life... so why not video games?

Edit: To clarify. Motive is tied directly to a specific action, or actions.

Motive is a thing that leads a person to do something. So the only place that "destroying the world" makes sense as a motive, is when the action is something other than destroying the world (creating an atomic bomb, for example).

So... explaining that the motives for a person's action(s) is/are to destroy the world, is not to explain why the person wants to destroy the world. Anyways... I'm just rambling away.

 

[The8th]

My description of the ultimate antagonist:

First, he/she needs to be driven by something (a past experience or personal ambition) that will satisfy their end agenda. Secondly, this person is extremely calculating, deceptive and strategic in how they achieve this goal. Most historical antagonists either seek world domination or annihilation. Yet, (in my opinion) a GOOD antagonist is an "anti-villain" who believes their sinister/maniacal plan will benefit others. Now that can be a bit tricky for some writers; but, consider these examples: Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias (Watchmen), Magneto (X-Men), Loki (Thor), and the Shadows/Vorlons (Babylon 5).

Personally, I like creating and writing about anti-villains, and I strongly believe that they are the best/ultimate kind of antagonists for a hero (or anti-hero for that matter) to face off against. As far as defeating them goes, the age-old fist fight doesn't suffice in my book. I prefer more of a philosophical confrontation that either reveals the waywardness of the antagonist or undermines their plan.

 

[TheBrogrammer]

You guys all have great ideas, but here's my opinion on what makes a antagonist great.

Motivation is good, and madness is also good. But what I think actions can make the difference from a bad antagonist and a good antagonist.

Creative actions or eccentricities will make a bad guy seem a bit messed up in the head, which most villains are, and that makes them memorable.

Take for instance, the Joker from Batman: The Dark Knight. He just wants the world to burn, but he was perfectly fine. What made the Joker memorable were his behavior and his actions. This guy probably creeped a lot of folks out when this movie came out.

Another example: Sho Minamimoto. Sho was one of the antagonists from The World Ends With You. If you haven't played this game, (shame on you) Sho is a man with tattoos on his arms, and modern gangster style clothing. He's dressed to make old ladies run away from him.

This appearance might make you think of tons of archetypes, but he doesn't fall into any of them. This guy is obsessed with math, and makes junk piles in the middle of the road. He calls them "art". Math has made such an impact on Sho, that he talks about it constantly. He calls the heroes "Factoring Hectopascals", he references trigonometry, (SOH CAH TOA, or Some Old Horses Can Always Hear Their Owner Approaching) and he randomly says like 25 numbers from pi. Fans of the game quote him quite often, and he is a beloved character in the series.

Another one of my favorite antagonists is Baccano's Graham Specter. (Baccano! is an anime for those wondering.)

What makes Graham cool is that he carries around a huge monkey wrench, and he constantly contradicts himself. This guy seems pretty messed up. Just watch this, and you'll understand everything.



So therefore, an antagonist's worth, (at least a human one) is determined by his actions.

 

[Tsukihime]

I think it has to be the person that's closest to you. The one you'd never expect.

The person that you thought was your comrade for a good amount of the game.

Like your first day at a new organization and the dude helps you out, does quests with you, walks you through the ups and downs.

And then he reveals himself as the demon lord and you have to defeat him.

LOL that would be hilarious.

 

[Emmych]

If we're talking villains, I want someone super scary and evil -- like, pants-wettingly scary!

If we're just talking antagonists, then all I need them to do is totally break the protagonist. I wanna see emotional breakdown city goin' on in the MC's camp.

 

[Julien Brightside]

Hmm, lets see.

I`ll just reference a couple of them.

Breath of fire 1 had three:

1. The Dragon emperor who wanted to conquer the world because ...he wanted control over it I guess?

2. The Dragon Emperors subordinate who wanted the power for himself who help you somewhere along the way, but when you had killed the emperor, he showed his true colors.

3. THe goddess which had been used by the "evil" guys. She was the last boss, but she had to be defeated or she`d just empower some other poor schmuch into doing her bidding.

Banjo-Kazooie had an interesting villain. Gruntilda the witch.

How: She kidnapped Banjos sister.

Why: To use her youth to make herself younger.

She also always spoke in rhymes which made her quite interesting character wise.

 

[Zeramae]

My ultimate antagonist?

Someone who the hero knows is the enemy, but wants nothing more than to be allies with said enemy. Something about a feeling of camaraderie even though both you and the character KNOWS this is an awful idea. And just to solidify it, works with the hero from time to time when it's more convenient for the enemy's overall goal. Even better when the villain makes the hero feel like the bad guy from time to time.

The villain has a silver tongue and looks perfectly in control with his emotions, but finally make him truly angry and his rage knows no bounds. This same hatred is a driving force for his main goals which many might see justified knowing said villain's back-story.

So to sum up: Someone who oozes charm/manipulation that feels in control even when a great rage wells in from deep within throughout the story. Oh, and what Emmych said as well.

 

[Paladin-Cleric of Awesome]

The Ultimate Antagonist (as opposed to my inevitably turned good antagonist (who usually ends up as my own personal hero character even if they aren't the her themselves))

Someone who just can.

I think the ultimate bad guy is the one that just can. Can be evil, can be charasmatic, can be endearingly good and confused the party terribly by his niceness, his motivation? What motivation, he just does it because he can, there's no driving force, he just thinks "Hey, that kingdom looks sorta nice" a day later he owns that kingdom, he doesn't even have to try, he just does, and not only that, but the people in that kingdom, they love him, think he's the best thing since sliced bread.

And when the hero finally gets to that last battle and asks the inevitable why. The villian just shrugs and says. "Because I can." That is way more chilling than anything else. No sobstory background, no rational explation behind the destruction of towns, the genocide of hundreds of people, he just did it because he could. That sort of bad guy wouldn't have to recruit or buy loyalty, they would come to him in droves.

 

[m4uesviecr]

I have played a lot of games, and there is only one antagonist that made my blood boil: Driscoll.

If you haven't played Front Mission I, and love tactical rpg's and don't mind a throwback, this game is a definite must. The storyline was great. Though I admit the battles were relatively easy (compared to behemoths like FM4.), the apathy that man had for human life made my toes curl.

He was basically a man with a lust for power, control, and supremacy, who was willing to use any and everybody to get it. Though that sounds like nearly every antagonist known to man, the difference was the fact that Driscoll hit home with so much force and little mercy. Example/HUGE SPOILER, below

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SPOILER!

The main character, Llyod, lost his wife to a platoon that Driscoll was a part of, and basically spent his life as a mercenary trying to find her. This #$%! used this woman's BRAIN, to power his wanzer, making sure to let Llyod know of this before preparing to defeat Llyod with said wanzer. I mean, seriously?!?!

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I guess you can say that is my Ultimate Antagonist. The egotistical power hungry villain who makes sure to find the softest spot on your body to bury his blade.

Oh, I have to make sure I throw in Kefka too. A villain with a sense of humour, but NO remorse. Absolutely beautiful.

 

[Zasian]

I was just going to mention Kefka, then you beat me too it.

No cookie for you.

xD

 

[m4uesviecr]

*looks sullenly at her cookie-less hands*

=;(

 

[Archeia]

my ultimate antagonist is a goddess that got sick of people whining about everything so she tortures them via boulder pushing. And spiders. And slimes.