Yuri(lesbian) elements in games?

[Neverward]

Spoiler

I'm a straight guy and I personally like yuri, but I'm not addicted to it by any means.

 

I don't care if the characters are straight\gay\lesbians\bisexuals, I only care if they're well developed, so if your idea is good and well executed there shouldn't be real problems.

One thing must be said however, not everyone uses gay and lesbian romances in their RM games (I personally know only 2 people here), so the idea is certainly original.

Yeah I came to realize looking around it's not very common, which is mostly why I asked!

 

[Galenmereth]

To me, gay or lesbian relationships in both games and movies/series can be really interesting. The reason is that in most societies, there's still a stigma against these kinds of relationships, and so a story that includes romance of that kind has the potential to be so much more interesting than "straight" romance. And not only because of the societal element, but also because of the psychological effects on each person; struggling with accepting ones own feelings for another of the same sex, for example. There's a lot of good story that can grow from this. Not that every gay/lesbian story has to be a struggle – no struggle could be equally refreshing, for example, like in Paradise Kiss, – but it's still an interesting foundation.

So I say that as long as it feels sincere, go for it. Just try to make it interesting

 

[Neverward]

To me, gay or lesbian relationships in both games and movies/series can be really interesting. The reason is that in most societies, there's still a stigma against these kinds of relationships, and so a story that includes romance of that kind has the potential to be so much more interesting than "straight" romance. And not only because of the societal element, but also because of the psychological effects on each person; struggling with accepting ones own feelings for another of the same sex, for example. There's a lot of good story that can grow from this. Not that every gay/lesbian story has to be a struggle – no struggle could be equally refreshing, for example, like in Paradise Kiss, – but it's stile an interesting foundation.

So I say that as long as it feels sincere, go for it. Just try to make it interesting

Very good point, I really like the social and internal struggle that goes on with that. I like to incorporate all of the social repercussions, and portray the taboo side of it like many yuri's try to avoid, because I find it more interesting, and more realistic for that matter.

Thanks for your good opinion!

 

[SLEEP]

Stop nicknaming your romance after anime porno, or maybe do, but i'm going to assume your story is anime porno if you do. Otherwise, the rest sounds cool.

 

[Probotector 200X]

Just another "go for it" from me.

I just wanna say that most of my lead characters in my RPG ideas are lesbians. It's just how it works out. It doesn't really mean anything though, as none of my RPGs are really past that "idea" stage...My point is, you shouldn't worry that some people might not like it, because there's always someone who hates something, you know? And if someone quits your game halfway through when they discover the main character's orientation is one they dislike, then that's their problem. Well, unless you do a lot of teasing otherwise, like the the hundreds of female characters that seem lesbian but are actually super hetero (or vice versa), I don't know, it's just jarring I guess? I know, some people in real life are like that. Eh, nevermind.

Also, just wanna say that you don't have to go the "taboo" route if you don't want too, but you already said you did...

 

[dayero]

Are you talking about a commercial game?

Otherswise, i don't really get why you would select the way you express yourself by listening to the opinions of strangers. You should do it the other way around. Think about it: Can you come up with any possible opinion saying "I (specifically) don't like lesbian relationships in a story because..." that would not influence your opinion of the person expressing it in a negative way?

If not, you have your answer.

PS: " It has been done ad nauseam" doesn't count. Everything has been.

 

[Deep Thought]

I bet the fine folks at /u/ (4chan's yuri board) would be happy to help. Granted, they've got plenty of porn, but they also have reasonable discussions about the genre. As for my personal opinion, I prefer lone-wolf characters and gameplay, so I wouldn't be of much help.

 

[RyanA]

I have to say that from various...urr...sources...that when hete-romance is done in vidjamagames, it isn't done particularly well, hom-romance is done even worse and in some games I've seen it in...it's more like a 'hay we katers to zis 2!1!' kind of thing!

I'd say if you can do a believable romance that warms the player's heart, whether it's a hom-romance, hete-romance or a 5 eyed anthromorphic alien with a soft spot for purple shoes, go for it.

Otherwise, nah, just make the gamez :3

 

[MiracleMare]

I think it would be an interesting aspect to add to a game. By reading your description of your intentions, I can definitely see that the relationship wouldn't be too heavy or tacky, which would turn me off. It would be cool to see a well developed yuri relationship in an RPG Maker game  Female opinion here.

 

[Neverward]

Spoiler

Stop nicknaming your romance after anime porno, or maybe do, but i'm going to assume your story is anime porno if you do. Otherwise, the rest sounds cool.

"Yuri is a Japanese jargon term for content and a genre involving love between women in manga, anime, and related Japanese media" which does not = porn. As I said, it was a story originally made for a manga, which is why I refer to it in this terminology.

Spoiler

Are you talking about a commercial game?Otherswise, i don't really get why you would select the way you express yourself by listening to the opinions of strangers. You should do it the other way around. Think about it: Can you come up with any possible opinion saying "I (specifically) don't like lesbian relationships in a story because..." that would not influence your opinion of the person expressing it in a negative way?

If not, you have your answer.

PS: " It has been done ad nauseam" doesn't count. Everything has been.

I have already decided this is an element in my game, I am not asking opinions so that they can sway the way I create the game, but so that I can determine how people will react to it in the community, as I said. Which is why I am asking a bunch of strangers, because it is these strangers and this community which will experience my game, and as such I'd like to know what they think of it. I'm not here to judge how people think of lesbians, or to see what the community thinks of lesbians, I'm here to see what people think of lesbians in my game. And I'm well aware that everything has been done before, it was not in question.

Spoiler

Just another "go for it" from me.

I just wanna say that most of my lead characters in my RPG ideas are lesbians. It's just how it works out. It doesn't really mean anything though, as none of my RPGs are really past that "idea" stage...My point is, you shouldn't worry that some people might not like it, because there's always someone who hates something, you know? And if someone quits your game halfway through when they discover the main character's orientation is one they dislike, then that's their problem. Well, unless you do a lot of teasing otherwise, like the the hundreds of female characters that seem lesbian but are actually super hetero (or vice versa), I don't know, it's just jarring I guess? I know, some people in real life are like that. Eh, nevermind.

Also, just wanna say that you don't have to go the "taboo" route if you don't want too, but you already said you did...

Commercial or not commercial is far from decided! Yeah that's what I figured, if someone doesn't like that aspect then well, it's just the way the game was and I won't change it to for every person haha.

Spoiler

I have to say that from various...urr...sources...that when hete-romance is done in vidjamagames, it isn't done particularly well, hom-romance is done even worse and in some games I've seen it in...it's more like a 'hay we katers to zis 2!1!' kind of thing!
I'd say if you can do a believable romance that warms the player's heart, whether it's a hom-romance, hete-romance or a 5 eyed anthromorphic alien with a soft spot for purple shoes, go for it.

Otherwise, nah, just make the gamez :3

Well, I have seen it done as well in those ways. However as I've said, It does not over-glorify those relationships, and it is not a romance, so it should not be an aspect which turns people off (I mean if they weren't into romance games). Just because someone else implemented an element in their game in a lame way, does not mean that you should not implement it into your own game, simply that you must do it better.

Spoiler

I think it would be an interesting aspect to add to a game. By reading your description of your intentions, I can definitely see that the relationship wouldn't be too heavy or tacky, which would turn me off. It would be cool to see a well developed yuri relationship in an RPG Maker game  Female opinion here.

Thanks for your opinion!

edit: @Ulrix: Sorry forgot to respond to your post as well xD thanks for the suggestion!

 

[B.Ultimus]

I feel it's not a bad idea, as long as it's done tastefully.  If it's treated like any other normal relationship, except the male happens to be female, then why not?

 

[Eschaton]

Stop nicknaming your romance after anime porno, or maybe do, but i'm going to assume your story is anime porno if you do. Otherwise, the rest sounds cool.

This.  Using the word "yuri," indeed just makes it sound pornographic, the definition notwithstanding.  "If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck..."  You don't even need to say the word "porn," the word "yuri" just comes with those assumptions and connotations, regardless of how you feel.

If I see the tag "yuri" in the game's thread, I'll just assume it's a niche game and give it a pass.

Like *any* romance, it shouldn't be central to the plot or gameplay.  Like any romance, it should be subtle and downplayed.  It shouldn't be distracting.  The player should ship them to the very end.  I, personally, am sick of the Big Damn Kiss and the Big Damn "I Love You," in movies, games, books, etc.  It is truly getting old, gay or straight.

 

[Neverward]

Spoiler

This.  Using the word "yuri," indeed just makes it sound pornographic, the definition notwithstanding.  "If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck..."  You don't even need to say the word "porn," the word "yuri" just comes with those assumptions and connotations, regardless of how you feel.
If I see the tag "yuri" in the game's thread, I'll just assume it's a niche game and give it a pass.

Like *any* romance, it shouldn't be central to the plot or gameplay.  Like any romance, it should be subtle and downplayed.  It shouldn't be distracting.  The player should ship them to the very end.  I, personally, am sick of the Big Damn Kiss and the Big Damn "I Love You," in movies, games, books, etc.  It is truly getting old, gay or straight.

edit: failed spoiler lol

I'm sorry but I think that I must perceive this word differently (and I am a person who watches Yuri anime and whatnot)

I think in Japan if you say 'A story with some Yuri elements'  they will assume that it is a reference to some sort of media that has women in it that like each other. Also most people who watch shows and media that contain them regularly are not in it for porn, like any good story where the romance is a subplot, these people are merely looking for a subplot romance which has lesbians instead of straight people. I think that you guys aren't used to that word or something, because you are taking it way out of proportion.

This game is not RTP, this game is not even strictly 'American' or whatever, it's a game with HEAVY anime influence. I am drawing it in anime style, and so I am going to be using the terminology that fits the genre.

Will I actually tag my game 'yuri'? Probably not, just like you don't tag your game 'romance' if it's a sci fi where some people like each other. I tried to make it clear that  this is just a small element of the game, it's not a porno, it won't be labeled as a romance/yuri, and it will just be a small thing I might mention in the thread.

 

[Kaelan]

Sounds like a lot of people don't know what Yuri means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_(genre)

 

[Galenmereth]

I think shoujo-ai (shōjo-ai?) might go over better with some folks as its main use is for the emotional relationship between women, but personally I don't know many people who know the word yuri who then equal it to strictly sexual relationships; it means both sexual and emotional. Then again, why separate emotional from sexual relationships? Both can lead to the other, or not at all, depending on a lot of factors.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

I keep wanting to weigh in on this topic, but I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said! But you especially wanted female opinions, so I will speak anyway lol


I certainly wouldn't be put off in any way if I were playing a game that didn't tell me ahead of time that there were going to be lesbian relationships. I'd probably get really excited, especially if the story baits it might go that direction and then it actually does. (I hate in games and stories and such when a gay or lesbian relationship is hinted at and then never moves past that point. I mean, I get that it's likely because they want to dodge any negative impact, but BLAH!--- it makes me mad. :/ )


I don't entirely agree with the sentiment that it should be handled the same way as a hetero relationship would. That should depend on your society and what your society considers the 'norm.' If they so happen to be blessed to be in a space academy that doesn't have any sort of stigma towards same sex couples, then I think it is okay to treat it the same, otherwise it would be more realistic to show (even subtly, since you don't want it to be the central point of the game) what sort of impact it has on the characters themselves and those around them.


As for the question of whether it adds something or removes something game experience wise to me, it does neither. At the end of the day, it all depends on how it is handled within the story as a whole. If the relationship is believable and probable within the confines of the story, if it is realistic, natural, and given a proper level of growth - that is what will add something for me, and it will detract from the game only if it is clumsy, poorly written, rushed and forced. Oh, and I suppose it would detract if it was just put in for the 'Yuri is hot; fanservice' point, but I have a feeling that that's not a thing I need to worry about in this case.

 

[Kaelan]

But nobody uses shoujo-ai for this, save for a few Americans - it's not even used with that meaning in Japan; the common term is yuri. There already is a word for this, we don't need to make up any new ones (in fact, if you wanted to denote something pornographic, you'd specifically have to say Yuri Hentai). If other people have misconceptions about what it means, it's their problem to fix.

It's like saying "well, I only ever see the word Gay in Gay Porn sites, so you shouldn't use it because to me it implies porn". Your problem, mate.

 

[Galenmereth]

From wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_(genre)#Japanese_vs._western_usage 
 

In Japan the term shōjo-ai (少女愛?, lit. girl love) is not used with this meaning,[6] and instead tends to denote pedophilia (actual or perceived), with a similar meaning to the term lolicon(Lolita complex).

I've never seen it used in that context before, ever. And I've watched anime that's described as shoujo-ai (in Japanese), and read shoujo-ai manga. Quite a bit actually. Same goes for shounen-ai, which I'm into too. And there's never any lolicon (or shota-con, the boy equivalent) in any of these. So I'm not entirely sure that the above is correct. The source lists one book, and that does not a fact make. For example, take this post: http://asutoraeanooka.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/what-are-yuri-and-shoujo-ai/

“Here in the west, the term yuri is often, but not exclusively, used to represent explicit sexual relations between women. Shoujoai (Girls’ Love) is a pretty new term, for all that it’s a pretty old concept. The term shoujoai was created as an analog for shounenai (Boys’ Love)…by an American fan. It isn’t really used in Japan – although they know what we mean when we use it. Shoujoai is often used to refer to romantic love between girls – sometimes with sex, sometimes not. The emphasis tends to be on the romantic over the sexual, but this is a convention that was made up by Americans and has no meaning at all in Japan.

 

… In short, yuri is any story with women in love (or lust) with other women.”

According to that, shoujo-ai is indeed an american construct, created as an analog to shounen-ai. And shounen-ai is traditionally used to denote non-sexual depiction of love between boys/men. But again, there are some differences in how it's used.

I think it's fair to say that people have different opinions on the meaning behind both yuri and shoujo-ai based on culture and background. And it's not just a few Americans that use the term shoujo-ai; all manga translated to english (usually by Amercian companies, but released in all of the west) shoujo-ai is actually used as a label to denote the theme of love between girls/women.

I hope I didn't sidetrack too much here. If so, I apologize in advance

 

[Neverward]

Spoiler

I think shoujo-ai (shōjo-ai?) might go over better with some folks as its main use is for the emotional relationship between women, but personally I don't know many people who know the word yuri who then equal it to strictly sexual relationships; it means both sexual and emotional. Then again, why separate emotional from sexual relationships? Both can lead to the other, or not at all, depending on a lot of factors.

You basically made the point yourself but, Yuri is simply the word that I believe fits it the most, though they both work. The game is targeted at everyone, Americans, Japanese, anyone, and it's just not something worth stressing about... I mean, If someone wants to call it Shoujo Ai they can go for it. If someone asked me if it was, I would say yes, because they're the same thing basically, just a different name for it, and some people know it by that and some people don't.

Spoiler

I keep wanting to weigh in on this topic, but I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said! But you especially wanted female opinions, so I will speak anyway lolI certainly wouldn't be put off in any way if I were playing a game that didn't tell me ahead of time that there were going to be lesbian relationships. I'd probably get really excited, especially if the story baits it might go that direction and then it actually does. (I hate in games and stories and such when a gay or lesbian relationship is hinted at and then never moves past that point. I mean, I get that it's likely because they want to dodge any negative impact, but BLAH!--- it makes me mad. :/ )

I don't entirely agree with the sentiment that it should be handled the same way as a hetero relationship would. That should depend on your society and what your society considers the 'norm.' If they so happen to be blessed to be in a space academy that doesn't have any sort of stigma towards same sex couples, then I think it is okay to treat it the same, otherwise it would be more realistic to show (even subtly, since you don't want it to be the central point of the game) what sort of impact it has on the characters themselves and those around them.

As for the question of whether it adds something or removes something game experience wise to me, it does neither. At the end of the day, it all depends on how it is handled within the story as a whole. If the relationship is believable and probable within the confines of the story, if it is realistic, natural, and given a proper level of growth - that is what will add something for me, and it will detract from the game only if it is clumsy, poorly written, rushed and forced. Oh, and I suppose it would detract if it was just put in for the 'Yuri is hot; fanservice' point, but I have a feeling that that's not a thing I need to worry about in this case.

Yeah I agree about not just hinting at the relationships, I mean it's a little bit of a dramatic story, a little bit of a study in female mentality. There's not a whole ton of action and when it's all said and done, I'm pretty sure the game is gonna be a lot like a VN. So the romance that there is, I will make explorable and detailed where it needs to be and where it's going to further the plot. That's a good point though, a lot of people are saying to not overdo it, but I also must keep in mind  that plenty of people enjoy a good romance (and I personally do so, I will be catering more towards my preferences ;P) so I shouldn't keep it too in the dark either.

And the society and how it formed should be what dictates how people react, I agree, but the thing about this academy is it is a culmination of people from various galaxy's and planets and nations, so everyone that goes there would think of it differently I suppose depending on their planet, society, etc. I think that just makes for more interesting character interactions though.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

Different planets and stuff too--ah, this story sounds exciting :>