Zendir: A New World

[Matseb2611]

All right, so I've found it and went there. Pretty cool sewer I must say, although the boss in it was pretty easy. Went to the sky castle now, but wow, the difficulty suddenly went up. All the regular enemies were one-shotting the mages and the first boss destroyed us. Lol. So I might have to level up a bit and stock up on more items. Perhaps there could be a bit of a smoother transition in difficulty between the last area and this area, otherwise it goes from too easy to impossibly hard.

 

[EternalShadow]

All right, so I've found it and went there. Pretty cool sewer I must say, although the boss in it was pretty easy. Went to the sky castle now, but wow, the difficulty suddenly went up. All the regular enemies were one-shotting the mages and the first boss destroyed us. Lol. So I might have to level up a bit and stock up on more items. Perhaps there could be a bit of a smoother transition in difficulty between the last area and this area, otherwise it goes from too easy to impossibly hard.

Yeah, the sewer boss was supposed to be harder, but I didn't have time to test the difficulty multiple times all the way through. The ending's far harder than the rest of the game so do take your time in levelling up and getting equipment and stuff.

 

[Matseb2611]

All right, so I've completed the game. The last few bosses were pretty tough, but I noticed they just needed several tries. It's good when bosses near the end are very hard, but the only problem is that I felt I had to keep spamming one and the same skill repeatedly in order to get past them. Perhaps the biggest suggestion for improvement I can give (for the whole game in fact) is to balance the battles a bit. Some enemies were too easy, others too hard. Some skills were too overpowered, others were practically useless. Some characters had tonnes of health, others hardly any. And so on. But generally the game is good. The story, characters, locations/map design were strong points (and the cutscenes were fun too). The game mechanics were a weak point.

 

[EternalShadow]

Understood! Glad you enjoyed the game

 

[orochii]

I am DLing the Zendir2, but I love chronological order, so I would like to play the first one before the second one. So, is there any chance that you reupload the game? It sends a "File not found" error. Seems like Rapidshare likes to delete stuff... :C

Another question, is a third installment on the way, or this series ends on the second?

Orochii Zouveleki

 

[SnowOwl]

I'm working on Zen 2 THEN going back for a Director's Cut of Zen 1. Remaking a game before moving on is too disheartening, lol.

This is a really bad attitude to have. You should make sure Nr 1 is as good as possible before even starting on 2.

Nobody is going to play Nr 2 if Nr 1 isn't good.

 

[EternalShadow]

I am DLing the Zendir2, but I love chronological order, so I would like to play the first one before the second one. So, is there any chance that you reupload the game? It sends a "File not found" error. Seems like Rapidshare likes to delete stuff... :C


Another question, is a third installment on the way, or this series ends on the second?


Orochii Zouveleki

Yeah, sure. Feel free to play Zen 2 while you wait for me to have free time to upload the first game again!


The series ends on the third instalment

This is a really bad attitude to have. You should make sure Nr 1 is as good as possible before even starting on 2.


Nobody is going to play Nr 2 if Nr 1 isn't good.

I find this is also a bad attitude to have


People play, and like 2. So...

 

[SnowOwl]

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't send me, the potential player, a very

good message when you pretty much say you just rushed out game nr 1 and will

properly finish it whenever you feel like it.

How do I know you won't do the same with Nr. 2?

 

[Matseb2611]

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't send me, the potential player, a very

good message when you pretty much say you just rushed out game nr 1 and will

properly finish it whenever you feel like it.

How do I know you won't do the same with Nr. 2?

I think this is something we've all been through. The first Zendir was Hotfirelegend's very first RM game. Our first RM games don't usually turn out so well, because we're still learning how to use the engine whilst making them. But when we start making consecutive games, they turn out better and better, and when we look back at our earlier works, we realise they're not quite as good as we thought of them when we first made them.  

 

[EternalShadow]

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't send me, the potential player, a very


good message when you pretty much say you just rushed out game nr 1 and will


properly finish it whenever you feel like it.


How do I know you won't do the same with Nr. 2?

Because the second game is already finished and has received good reviews.


Development of Zendir 2 took a year - Zendir 1 took a month because I did it while I had the trial. It was a challenge I set myself - to see if the game could be made in just a month. I managed it. Granted, it's not the best it COULD be, but it was also my first game and I learnt a lot from one month of intensive game development and applied those lessons to the second game!

 

[kerbonklin]

I agree on SnowOwl on this one, as I believe it's pretty silly to make a sequel to one's very first RM game.

 

[EternalShadow]

I agree on SnowOwl on this one, as I believe it's pretty silly to make a sequel to one's very first RM game.

Why?


It's not like this is commercial or anything. People wanted a sequel and I wanted a sequel so I made one, what's so wrong about that? :/

 

[SnowOwl]

In my opinion making sequels out of your first ever game is a bad idea,

because game 2, 3 etc. is going to be better than 1, but most people won't play them,

since number 1 wasn't as good.

Why not start on something new instead of continuing it?

I'm sure there are a couple of people that wanted a sequel, sure.

But compared to the number of new players?

Probably not as many (I wouldn't play a sequel without playing the first one, even if it's supposedly "standalone").

 

[EternalShadow]

In my opinion making sequels out of your first ever game is a bad idea,


because game 2, 3 etc. is going to be better than 1, but most people won't play them,


since number 1 wasn't as good.

I don't mind how many people play my game: this game creation is a hobby. I would only ever care for numbers beyond one (player) if it were a commercial game. I'm not the kind of person to leave things unfinished, to leave questions unanswered. The story wasn't finished in the first game, so I carried it on in the second and am ending it on the third.


Besides, in your first comment, you say 'nobody is going to play nr.2 if the first wasn't good' - that's not the point I'm making with the Director's Cut anyway. The DC is meant to be a return to the first game after the second to make it as good as it can be, WITH LESSONS LEARNT FROM MAKING THE SECOND.


You're not going to learn much from just redoing one game over and over!

Why not start on something new instead of continuing it?


I'm sure there are a couple of people that wanted a sequel, sure.


But compared to the number of new players?


Probably not as many (I wouldn't play a sequel without playing the first one, even if it's supposedly "standalone).

So you haven't played Final Fantasy 6 or 7, I take it?

 

[kerbonklin]

Derp, bad argument. The numbered FF games are completely different universes (except 13-2 for 10 and 10-2 for 10) (except maybe one or two instances, I think 8 had one case I don't remember)  They aren't sequels or prequels to each other.  The FF games that did have sequels or prequels had secondary names, like Crisis Core for 7, Remnant Wings for 12, etc

But 95% of people don't play 10-2 without playing 10 first, same with 13-2 and 13 (did that even come out yet? I forget)  Remnant Wings was pretty much standalone but it wasn't that popular anyways while 12 was popular, so everyone pretty much played 12 but not Remnant Wings

If anything don't take it personal, it's just business advice.

 

[EternalShadow]

Not really a bad argument when you consider he said:


I wouldn't play a sequel without playing the first one, even if it's supposedly "standalone).


Basically, this means he wouldn't have played a second game in a series even if it was standalone. Final Fantasy falls under this, as it is standalone and part of the FF "series". :/


The 'x'-2 games tend to be worse-reviewed than the original 'x' games, therefore less people play them, but the opposite is true for Zendir / Zendir 2, so you can't really make a direct comparison.


I loved Revanant Wings @_@ (Finished it long before I finished FF12 too, and I liked both - would've liked Wings even without FF12! Though I did love FF12 too. But there've not been any other FF games besides like, Tactics (which I'm not into) on my handhelds.)

 

[Matseb2611]

I wouldn't play a sequel without playing the first one, even if it's supposedly "standalone

I too can't bring myself to agree with this quote. There are plenty of sequels of huge commercial success series that can be easily played without having to play the first/original game. Half Life 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, or how about the Mass Effects? I am sure tonnes of people started it off on the 2nd game without even playing the first. We could go into much larger series too. What about all the Zelda, Castlevania, Metroid games? You don't need to start on the very first game necessarily in order to enjoy the series and all their sequels are set in the same fictional world (most of them anyway). 

What I'm trying to say is - it's a bit hasty to just turn away from a standalone sequel without even trying it if you haven't played or enjoyed the first game in that series.    

 

[kerbonklin]

I think you guys kind of strayed away from the point of discussing the business model of the subject, to the point of personal opinions instead. The business model which was that Zendir was a beginner's RTP-ish project that wasn't so great, but a sequel was planned and made anyways.  If extra time and resources were poured into part 1, it itself would be successful, and resulting in part 2 being MUCH more successful.

Also don't forget the RM community isn't as strict with it's reviewing as a normal game critic would be.

Also business-model-wise it's late to make a "Director's Cut" because the initial release period is mainly what matters, which wasn't that successful.

If a company made a bad game, and 4 years later decided to remake it, what are the chances it will be played/gain popularity? Not so great of course, pretty much minimum.  Director's Cuts and such only work on already-successful games to make them even more successful to the newer generation, and usually as a quick cash-in from nostalgia fans.

 

[EternalShadow]

And you stray away from my point that the game was never made to be a profitable venture, just a hobby. Because of that, I actually don't care how 'successful' my first few games are. The only success they need are some people playing them and giving feedback which I can then learn from and apply to future games wherein I will actually care more.

 

[kerbonklin]

It doesn't have to be profitable. If anything I was teaching you something about your hobby. I guess in the words of Tai_MT you can call me a "fun killer" but even hobbies should be meant for trying to be performed successfully and in this situation getting better business-model-wise to help you in future endeavors.

I just can't help it when I see someone "having fun" in their own way with a hobby when it involves doing something universally not-wise. I mean no ill intentions though. But most of the time when people are like this, they usually don't get anywhere far in that hobby, i've witnessed it a lot. Especially in terms of casual/competitive gaming as an example, where people love a game but they don't want to take it to the next level, which would actually provide more enjoyment for them.

If anything, since Zendir 2 turned out decent, going for a part 3 as you planned isn't too bad of an idea. Just try not to get away with it in the future with other project series you make.